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  1. Matt Phillips is offline
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    5/27/2009 11:46am

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    Quote Originally Posted by ErikW View Post
    Machida is the "Liddell-upgrade" and his reign over the 205 division will last a bit longer than Chucks.
    That is an interesting way of looking at it. This does tend to happen over time (Fedor as Vov 2.0). Lyoto's achievement makes me very happy because it is clear we are entering an era where the elite MMA fighter is something more interesting than Pat Milletich's MMA Frankenstein. The champions of tomorrow (and today!) are going to be (each) an indvivdual work of (martial) art. We now have Fedor, Cung, Lyoto, and GSP each expressing a style that is unique to them, not something you can roll into an MMA gym and learn, but their own unique expression, reflecting their personal path through the arts.

    The huge tactical advantage is that it is very difficult to train to counter even one such fighter, much less a whole division of them.

    Things are looking up.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  2. Goju - Joe is offline
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    I am a Ninja bitches!! Deal with it

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    Posted On:
    5/27/2009 12:32pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by War Wheel View Post
    That is an interesting way of looking at it. This does tend to happen over time (Fedor as Vov 2.0). Lyoto's achievement makes me very happy because it is clear we are entering an era where the elite MMA fighter is something more interesting than Pat Milletich's MMA Frankenstein. The champions of tomorrow (and today!) are going to be (each) an indvivdual work of (martial) art. We now have Fedor, Cung, Lyoto, and GSP each expressing a style that is unique to them, not something you can roll into an MMA gym and learn, but their own unique expression, reflecting their personal path through the arts.

    The huge tactical advantage is that it is very difficult to train to counter even one such fighter, much less a whole division of them.

    Things are looking up.
    Interresting statement

    Cung Le needs some more top fights

    and GSP in many ways is the ultimate expression MMA frankensteinism.

    What GSP does different is that he combines everything by being world class at everything and then uses it strategically.

    While I am huge Lyoto fan I don't think we heill be the prototype MMA fighter of the future like GSP is
  3. Hesperus is offline
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    it's all vanity

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    Posted On:
    5/27/2009 1:22pm

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    I will never understand the Miletech formula hate.
  4. Matt Phillips is offline
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    5/27/2009 1:22pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goju - Joe View Post
    What GSP does different is that he combines everything by being world class at everything and then uses it strategically.

    While I am huge Lyoto fan I don't think we heill be the prototype MMA fighter of the future like GSP is
    I was refering to his KK base. Everyone on that list trains the **** out of the standard stuff (boxing, wrestling, BJJ, MT) but htey bring something else to the table as well. You're right though, GSP is a weaker example than the others. Still, we are moving into an era where most, if not all, of the top belt holders are this type of fighter. If Cung fights Anderson and wins, that'll clinch it for me.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  5. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/27/2009 1:35pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by War Wheel View Post
    That is an interesting way of looking at it. This does tend to happen over time (Fedor as Vov 2.0). Lyoto's achievement makes me very happy because it is clear we are entering an era where the elite MMA fighter is something more interesting than Pat Milletich's MMA Frankenstein. The champions of tomorrow (and today!) are going to be (each) an indvivdual work of (martial) art. We now have Fedor, Cung, Lyoto, and GSP each expressing a style that is unique to them, not something you can roll into an MMA gym and learn, but their own unique expression, reflecting their personal path through the arts.

    The huge tactical advantage is that it is very difficult to train to counter even one such fighter, much less a whole division of them.

    Things are looking up.
    The only applicable example is Machida because Cung has done nothing in MMA to warrant discussion. Nor is he likely to. Fedor's style is good boxing and good SAMBO; pretty standard. GSP is a very good wrestler with solid but not great kick boxing; pretty standard.
  6. Feryk is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/27/2009 4:42pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa View Post
    The only applicable example is Machida because Cung has done nothing in MMA to warrant discussion. Nor is he likely to. Fedor's style is good boxing and good SAMBO; pretty standard. GSP is a very good wrestler with solid but not great kick boxing; pretty standard.
    You make it sound like all of the athletes you have named have pretty standard skill sets that can be learned by anyone with enough time and effort. I think that's been true for the last several years, but we are starting to see the refinements coming quicker lately.

    Matt Hughes owned Royce Gracie what, a year ago? Two? (I forget). He was the face of the 'New MMA' at the time. Now, he's lucky to get an undercard against Matt Serra - and only because of the animosity displayed on TUF. No one would consider him a serious contender for a belt anymore.

    The current era of MMA is one where people are adjusting and adapting so quickly that any edge a fighter develops is neutralized in a few fights. This points to better video analysis and coaching. Notable exception would be Anderson Silva. We'll see if Machida is in his league.
    Quote Originally Posted by pauli
    i was once told that "do" means wrecking people's **** for your own philosophical betterment.

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    I could be mistaking dumbness for delusion. I'll have to go dig out my DSM IV. It's great to have stumbled upon this site. The rich fauna and flora of mental dysfunction that exists in the martial arts is amazing. It's like the Galapagos.
  7. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/27/2009 5:00pm

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    What is your argument? You've strung together a series of only superficially connected points and failed to conclude anything.

    GSP and Fedor work a skill set that falls in-line with standard MMA-fare. Matt Hughes was a transitional fighter, past the early guys but never fully developed. Contrast his skill set to that of GSP, BJ Penn, or as demonstrated Saturday a guy like Edgar. Good everywhere.
  8. Goju - Joe is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/27/2009 5:50pm

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    Not to derail the thread but I think GSP has excellent striking and kick boxing, he just uses it as his over all strategy to setup his take downs and dominate the fight.

    GSP is what a mixed martial artist in he doesn't try and win by ultimate kick boxing but by strategically using all the tools in his arsenal.

    Every step of GSP's game is to move him into a dominant position, in his prefered case side control pounding the **** out of you

    Machida does the same thing with a different skill set and techniques but he is also trying to get you in a weak position where you can't defend his left hand.

    It's amazing
  9. Matt Phillips is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/27/2009 6:04pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa View Post
    The only applicable example is Machida because Cung has done nothing in MMA to warrant discussion. Nor is he likely to. Fedor's style is good boxing and good SAMBO; pretty standard. GSP is a very good wrestler with solid but not great kick boxing; pretty standard.
    I don't consider Combat SAMBO to be standard fare. I don't consider KK standard fare. And I don't consider San Shou standard fare. If you train any of those and you get on TUF, you are going to spend the entire show training everything but your base art.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  10. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/28/2009 10:21am

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    Quote Originally Posted by War Wheel View Post
    I don't consider Combat SAMBO to be standard fare. I don't consider KK standard fare. And I don't consider San Shou standard fare. If you train any of those and you get on TUF, you are going to spend the entire show training everything but your base art.
    SAMBO has its roots in judo, like bjj, and shares most of its curriculum with judo, like bjj, with some exceptions like the addition of leg locks, adopted by bjj. So yeah, the name may be different but the techniques are not. The flavor might be different but the ingredients are pretty much the same. Not to mention that there are and always have been lots of SAMBO influenced guys in mma.

    As for KK, the only expression of karate in GSP is the occasional back kick (which is in every style with kicks anyway). The guy is now essentially a very good wrestler with solid standup. If you watch his training he also seems to train exclusively in wrestling, bjj, boxing and muay thai.

    As for San Shou, sorry but Cung Le hasn't done anything yet.
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