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  1. #91
    Yoj's Avatar
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    Aikido is ok, but most folks don't understand what they are meant to be doing, they just keep carrying on the same choreographed crap, the thing is, the choreographed part is actually meant to be 'live' training, a game of sensitivity and postural dominance, but all the sheep do is run around each other like they were shown. Its sad, and not what the old boy did at all, but there you go. I've met quite a few crap aikido folks, and one or two that really are different, they know something is wrong and are examining it and trying to figure out why...

  2. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2 View Post
    What does this parlor trick prove? That we want to use our bodies efficiently and in biomechanically sound ways? Whoa, stop the presses.

    Aikido does not have any sort of different power method; nor does taiji or IMA. It has poor training methods.
    Well that is precisely my point.
    This is no different from a proper cross in boxing, or Hope's lunge with small sword.
    That parlour trick is just that. It demonstrates bio mechanical advantage and it is easy to do and as far as I can tell, it addresses what the poster I replied to was saying.

    As far as the training method, well I have posted enough around here to make it quite obvious that I do agree with you.

    Phil
    Last edited by willaume; 5/28/2009 6:13pm at .

  3. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoj View Post
    Aikido is ok, but most folks don't understand what they are meant to be doing, they just keep carrying on the same choreographed crap, the thing is, the choreographed part is actually meant to be 'live' training, a game of sensitivity and postural dominance, but all the sheep do is run around each other like they were shown. Its sad, and not what the old boy did at all, but there you go. I've met quite a few crap aikido folks, and one or two that really are different, they know something is wrong and are examining it and trying to figure out why...
    NO.

    Kata is Kata and Randori is Randori. There should be no resistance or countering during Kata. I mean, what's the point? If I already know what technique my partner is going to do, it's easy as hell to counter. It's meant to teach you the proper form and execution of a particular technique, THAT'S ALL. Once you have that down, you're supposed to go test what you've learned in Randori.

    Christ, I feel like I keep repeating the same thing over and over again.

    The reasons Ueshiba was such a badass was because:

    A. He was an incredibly talented athlete and probably could have excelled at any sport.

    B. He crosstrained in several martial arts including Jujutsu, Judo, Kenjutsu, Sumo, etc.

    C. He trained like a madman and tested himself in live bouts constantly.

  4. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom .C View Post
    Having been involved in Judo and Aikido for many years, I can attest that you are incorrect. Being an old guy, it doesn't bother me that you are incorrect.
    I love this 'I'm right, you're wrong' argument. It's just so intellectually stimulating and utterly convinces me of the righteousness of your cause. Otherwise, if it is meant as a put down, I will spend the rest of my life trembling in fear awaiting your next riposte.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaiNnyX4 View Post
    NO.

    Kata is Kata and Randori is Randori. There should be no resistance or countering during Kata.

    ok then, aikido is **** then, if you arent questioning kata at every point, you are missing the point. If aikido is leaving openings during kata, then you should be told about it by contact counseling,as I was.

    FWIW, I dont do aikido, but a daito derivative. Anytime an aikido guy steps on our mat he gets really curious about what we do.

    treating kata like its something that shall not be questioned is blind. We constantly question what we do in our kata, and guess what, mostly we notice that there are things the kata are trying to teach us that we forgot. It's all in the kata.

  6. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoj View Post
    ok then, aikido is **** then, if you arent questioning kata at every point, you are missing the point. If aikido is leaving openings during kata, then you should be told about it by contact counseling,as I was.

    FWIW, I dont do aikido, but a daito derivative. Anytime an aikido guy steps on our mat he gets really curious about what we do.

    treating kata like its something that shall not be questioned is blind. We constantly question what we do in our kata, and guess what, mostly we notice that there are things the kata are trying to teach us that we forgot. It's all in the kata.
    Testing what you do in Kata is called Randori. If you are doing anything other than following the form, you are no longer doing Kata.

    Pretty much every martial art does some form of Kata. But they might call it something else like "drilling", "patterns", etc. The difference between an effective training program is what happens after you're done practicing Kata. If you don't go out and test out the theories you've just been taught, it's pointless. But there's a reason Kata and Randori are two separate things.
    Last edited by RaiNnyX4; 5/28/2009 6:19pm at .

  7. #97
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    lol, only if the kata is done right, i dont say that to simply be argumentative, I am actually defending the aiki arts here.

    kata is a 2 way learning thing, the outcome varies, uke should be trying to win, tori should be trying to maintain their centre, if tori manages to maintain it, then the kata was done wrong, if the kata is done right, he falls over.

    kata should be questioned, because it should work.

  8. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoj View Post
    ok then, aikido is **** then, if you arent questioning kata at every point, you are missing the point. If aikido is leaving openings during kata, then you should be told about it by contact counseling,as I was.

    FWIW, I dont do aikido, but a daito derivative. Anytime an aikido guy steps on our mat he gets really curious about what we do.

    treating kata like its something that shall not be questioned is blind. We constantly question what we do in our kata, and guess what, mostly we notice that there are things the kata are trying to teach us that we forgot. It's all in the kata.
    For fucking crying out loud, is it too much too ask that you put post in the context of the current discussion?
    Read this post, by the very same guy, just one page before that one
    No BS Martial Arts - View Single Post - Why does Aikido have the biggist jerks in ma?

    So as you can see he is not overly found of the said methodology.

    I can be wrong English is not my first language but it seems relatively obvious to me that he does not say that kata should not be questioned or is the best way to go about training. He is juts pointing out what it is used for in the said training methodology.
    phil

  9. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaiNnyX4 View Post
    The reason Ueshiba was able to kick so much ass isn't that he trained "internally". No, it's much more likely that he simply trained hard and fought. By all accounts, he was some sort of Michael Jordan of martial arts anyways. He could probably have done all sorts of goofy **** when fighting people and still won (think Genki Sudo, Anderson Silva, etc.).

    Actually if you go read Sagawa's book, which is recently translated into english, it was because Takeda Sokaku made Sagawa, Ueshiba and all of his other daito-ryu disciples do massive amounts of solo internal training.

    http://transparentpower.com/

    I read the japanese copy a few years back, and he credits whipping olympic judoka in his 80's not because of muscles or waza but because he built his body utilizing internal skill. I'll pull the page if you want from the japanese version.

    If you look at the post-war deschi, Ueshiba supposedly no longer taught internal training, which probably is a factor why aikido is in the state it is today.

    Oddly enough, the kyokushin kancho was training at the Sagawa's dojo as well.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by willaume View Post
    For fucking crying out loud, is it too much too ask that you put post in the context of the current discussion?

    It's in context, should I swear to help the bullshidokas get the point?

    whing whinge fuckin whinge.

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