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  1. Diesel_tke is offline
    Diesel_tke's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 8:04pm

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     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by hornyhobo View Post
    I never considered hand/fist conditioning to be that incredibly important. Where should I start?

    I'm a believer in the all powerful heavy bag, personally. I haven't done extensive studies other than what I have personally felt. Which is that my hands and shins don't hurt any more when I punch people in the face, or kick them in the leg.

    I'm not with the whole concrete training thing, but I do personally believe that punching and kicking a heavy bag strengthens the muscles that you use to strike, harden your bones, and numb the nerve endings in those areas.

    All my opinion and not proven.
  2. Vieux Normand is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 8:07pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 血鷲

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Dugas View Post
    You are not one of those people.

    You know how to move and what is involved behind the structure.

    Im talking about old school karate people who break their hands and think its going to make them stronger.

    I hope you will not have issues when you get older with all that tree smacking you have done.

    PM me your snail mail addy and I will send you some liniment to try when you bang your hands.

    Cant hurt to see how it helps.
    My bad.

    Thought I saw a generalization; Frenchie, here, still needs to work on his understanding of the subtleties of English.

    I have met people who subscribe to the notion that fracture-scarred bones are somehow "harder" (as opposed to having a bit more bone-mass on the healed-over area of the fracture, which is closer to the truth). However, I have, over the years, met no more than one or two idiots who actually go out of the way to break their own bones (and, as you can well imagine, my association with such worthies was kept as brief as possible). None of them were Karate practitioners.

    Just to be clear, I'm no kind of extremist: closing on fifty years of age, I watch all aspects of my health as carefully as would any sane person, and that definitely includes my hands. At the first sign that any facet of my training is compromising normal function, I will not hesitate to change what needs to be changed.

    Sorry about the terse response earlier, and--although I have to head to shift now--I'll definitely try and get my addled mind to remember to send for some liniment (also assuming I can get the PM function to work properly from my computer--it has been dodgy of late).

    Genuine thanks for your concern.
  3. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 8:09pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Dugas View Post
    he did.

    and I am working on my masters in acupuncture.

    If it was quackery, I would not be able to cure him of whatever pain he was having.

    But being that I can, and it would help....

    Funny that his disbelief in meridians does not affect my being able to help him in a time of need with acupuncture.

    Only recently has the ignorance of the western medicine start to come around to such things as acupuncture. But even though we are stubborn and thick headed, we are coming around.
  4. hornyhobo is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 8:10pm


     Style: elbow smash

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by diesel_tke View Post
    I'm a believer in the all powerful heavy bag, personally. I haven't done extensive studies other than what I have personally felt. Which is that my hands and shins don't hurt any more when I punch people in the face, or kick them in the leg.

    I'm not with the whole concrete training thing, but I do personally believe that punching and kicking a heavy bag strengthens the muscles that you use to strike, harden your bones, and numb the nerve endings in those areas.

    All my opinion and not proven.
    If that's what you meant, then I agree. I'm still weary of the more extreme methods, but a heavy bag makes sense.
  5. Mor Sao is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 8:11pm

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    --
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vieux Normand View Post
    My bad.

    Thought I saw a generalization; Frenchie, here, still needs to work on his understanding of the subtleties of English.

    I have met people who subscribe to the notion that fracture-scarred bones are somehow "harder" (as opposed to having a bit more bone-mass on the healed-over area of the fracture, which is closer to the truth). However, I have, over the years, met no more than one or two idiots who actually go out of the way to break their own bones (and, as you can well imagine, my association with such worthies was kept as brief as possible). None of them were Karate practitioners.

    Just to be clear, I'm no kind of extremist: closing on fifty years of age, I watch all aspects of my health as carefully as would any sane person, and that definitely includes my hands. At the first sign that any facet of my training is compromising normal function, I will not hesitate to change what needs to be changed.

    Sorry about the terse response earlier, and--although I have to head to shift now--I'll definitely try and get my addled mind to remember to send for some liniment (also assuming I can get the PM function to work properly from my computer--it has been dodgy of late).

    Genuine thanks for your concern.
    Brother,

    It is all good.

    I am here to help with Chinese medicine.

    You can email me at info@coilingdragon.com anytime.

    be well, train hard and heal quickly

    Dale







  6. maxthegeek1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 8:11pm


     Style: BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by diesel_tke View Post
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by maxthegeek1

    Second, I don't believe in meridians, I'm pretty sure most people on this forum don't either, and it would take a lot of convincing to get me to.

    Are we talking about the same meridians that acupuncturist use? There are a lot of people that believe in them. There is various debate on what they do, but to say they don't exist is ignorant. IMO

    Quote:
    Third, the idea that there is a bone conditioning program that both strengthens ones bones and ligaments but isn't detrimental to dexterity seems flawed to me. If our body was capable of producing bone structure simply through conditioning that was superior in every respect, it seems to me that humanity would have simply evolved to have that bone structure. The reason our bone structure is capable of changing, is that evolution has given us the tools to adapt to our environment. If there was one bone structure that was superior in every environment, then evolution would not have granted us that ability to adapt.

    Didn't you contradict yourself in this argument?
    I don't think it is ignorant to not believe in meridians, much of acupuncture, or at least the way people often explain acupuncture, is very much pseudo science. If we've known about meridians and their locations all along, why hasn't anyone conclusively established their existence with a scientific study? Also, if you are going to claim that we have, when did I miss the announcement that there was a revolution in modern medicine?

    Also I did not contradict myself. I was proving my point. My point was that certain structures are better suited to certain environments. Your body has the tools to develop the structure which is best suited to your environment. If there was one structure which was best suited to ALL environments, then you would not need this ability to adapt. Thus, I am establishing, that because we DO have this ability to adapt, that there is no one bone structure that is universally superior. Thats why I found it unlikely that through kung fu you could develop such a structure. It would seem to me, that as demonstrated by karatekas, thicker/stronger bone structure results in less dexterity.
  7. Mor Sao is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 8:14pm

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     Style: Jook Lum South Mantis,

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by maxthegeek1 View Post
    I don't think it is ignorant to not believe in meridians, much of acupuncture, or at least the way people often explain acupuncture, is very much pseudo science. If we've known about meridians and their locations all along, why hasn't anyone conclusively established their existence with a scientific study? Also, if you are going to claim that we have, when did I miss the announcement that there was a revolution in modern medicine?

    Also I did not contradict myself. I was proving my point. My point was that certain structures are better suited to certain environments. Your body has the tools to develop the structure which is best suited to your environment. If there was one structure which was best suited to ALL environments, then you would not need this ability to adapt. Thus, I am establishing, that because we DO have this ability to adapt, that there is no one bone structure that is universally superior. Thats why I found it unlikely that through kung fu you could develop such a structure. It would seem to me, that as demonstrated by karatekas, thicker/stronger bone structure results in less dexterity.
    I have thicker and stronger bones. ligaments and tendons and have no such ill effects.

    Hence I made my comments about the low level martial arts who injure themselves when there are much better ways to train the body without the ill effects.

    Sorry that you have not been exposed to people that can show this.

    You are more than welcome to come visit anytime.

    My door is always open.







  8. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 8:16pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by maxthegeek1 View Post

    Also I did not contradict myself. I was proving my point. My point was that certain structures are better suited to certain environments. Your body has the tools to develop the structure which is best suited to your environment.
    Based on this argument alone you are saying that bone conditioning would work. Because your body would adapt to the environment of hard trauma to the bone, thus strengthening it.
  9. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 8:19pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by maxthegeek1 View Post
    I don't think it is ignorant to not believe in meridians, much of acupuncture, or at least the way people often explain acupuncture, is very much pseudo science. If we've known about meridians and their locations all along, why hasn't anyone conclusively established their existence with a scientific study? Also, if you are going to claim that we have, when did I miss the announcement that there was a revolution in modern medicine?
    As the western world has been unsuccessful in treating Fibromyalgia, the doctor's at Shands Hospital in Gainsville have been sending people to be treated by acupuncturists. They have actually been getting better results than new treatments like Cymbalta and Pain Management Clinics.
  10. Hedgehogey is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 8:24pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Dugas View Post
    it is about being able to hit and not break the hands and use every part of the hand. back of the hand, knife edge, fingers, hammerfist.
    Statements like this going unchallenged are one of the reasons I have always been against the existence of the C/K/JMA forums.


    "The only important elements in any society
    are the artistic and the criminal,
    because they alone, by questioning the society's values,
    can force it to change."-Samuel R. Delany

    RENDERING GELATINOUS WINDMILL OF DICKS

    THIS IS GOING TO BE THE BEST NON-EUCLIDIAN SPLATTERJOUST EVER

    It seems that the only people who support anarchy are faggots, who want their pathetic immoral lifestyle accepted by the mainstream society. It wont be so they try to create their own.-Oldman34, friend to all children
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