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  1. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 7:24pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by hornyhobo View Post
    You're not likely to injure yourself if you have proper technique and muscle strength in your hands and arms. Repeatedly punching something may strengthen bones a little bit, but all you're really doing is damaging your joints.

    In the end just strengthen your fingers, forearm, learn proper technique and stop wasting your time.
    Anyone one here who has actually done martial arts knows better than this. You take someone who has never punched anything in his whole life, teach him proper techniques, have him exercise to make his muscle strong, and then punch someone in the head.

    He will brake his hand if he punches full force. Every one here knows it.
  2. Mor Sao is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 7:25pm

    supporting member
     Style: Jook Lum South Mantis,

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Vieux Normand View Post
    Oh, well, if you're going to get all anecdotal and ****:

    I've bounced since the early eighties. Still do. Have done the KO when necessary, no gloves, no wraps...no harm to the hands. Decades of heavy-bag-type work on trees (which give a bit when struck, unlike concrete), combinations every morning in nearby parks. Hands a bit knobbly around the knuckles, but still totally free of any arthritis or other such conditions, and can still play piano. Also, neither heart- nor stomach-related pathologies (mind you, I think "meridians" are BS, but then I'm not CMA).

    I guess I'm one of the "karate people" who "have no idea how to condition their bodies or hands correctly". The two university degrees in kinesiology, with their sizable component of exercise-physiology, haven't helped at all.

    Breaking stone and fracturing skulls? Nothing remarkable there (must not be...I can do likewise)--it's all adaptation, nothing more.

    I'll concede on the baby-soft hands, though. Mine haven't been that way in decades, so you've got me there.
    You are not one of those people.

    You know how to move and what is involved behind the structure.

    Im talking about old school karate people who break their hands and think its going to make them stronger.

    I hope you will not have issues when you get older with all that tree smacking you have done.

    PM me your snail mail addy and I will send you some liniment to try when you bang your hands.

    Cant hurt to see how it helps.







  3. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 7:27pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kenpostudent View Post
    I don't disagree with any of that. I train on live bodies because I may fight a live body. Last time I checked, concrete blocks have never attacked anyone. So, I don't hit concrete, wood, or cinder blocks, ect.

    Obviously, I don't blast types of strikes on a training partner (claws to the face, ect.) but I can train those a a very stiff heavy bag, which is fairly close to a body, though not exact.

    Heavy bags never attacked anyone either.
  4. Snake Plissken is offline
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    When I Get Back

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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 7:29pm

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by hornyhobo View Post
    If you're talking about teenagers practicing bullshit kata and trying to win a fight with a "serpent strike", then that's a different story.
    This sounds like Bruce Downey.....
  5. crappler is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 7:40pm


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    http://www.howeverythingworks.org/jo...Article1.1.pdf

    I believe Dugan is pointing out that the essential element required to properly strike is form, which is supported by basic physics. "Human bones can actually resist 40 times more stress than concrete. (Picture a piece of concrete the size of a bone, and imagine how easily it would break.) The natural engineering of the human hand also lessens the severity of the impact. The muscle, tendons, ligaments and other soft tissue in the hand provide a natural cushion, dispersing the impact energy up through the arm. "
    http://www.zum.de/earthquake/karate.html

    But the second link agrees that bone thickening is important....
  6. kenpostudent is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 7:41pm


     Style: American Kenpo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by diesel_tke View Post
    Heavy bags never attacked anyone either.
    Good point... but a stiff heavy bag is closer to the texture and shape of a person than a block of concrete.
  7. hornyhobo is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 7:44pm


     Style: elbow smash

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by diesel_tke View Post
    Anyone one here who has actually done martial arts knows better than this. You take someone who has never punched anything in his whole life, teach him proper techniques, have him exercise to make his muscle strong, and then punch someone in the head.

    He will brake his hand if he punches full force. Every one here knows it.
    Isn't part of having proper technique NOT punching someone's skull? Are you saying proper technique and strength are useless with out "bone-conditioning"?
  8. hornyhobo is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 7:46pm


     Style: elbow smash

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Snake Plissken View Post
    This sounds like Bruce Downey.....
    That's because I am Bruce Downey...
  9. WhiteShark is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 7:46pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Dale has made a believer out of me over the years without sending me any liniment. :) He is too consistent in his claims and calm in his arguments for me to believe he is making anything up. I actually do NOT practice IP training but I have felt the effects of conditioned hands from "low level" martial artists in the knock-down karate world. If you don't think conditioned hands make a difference just go walk into a Kyokushin gym and have the head instructor hit you. And don't forget that guy doesn't even have baby soft hands like Dale. :)
  10. Mor Sao is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 7:47pm

    supporting member
     Style: Jook Lum South Mantis,

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kenpostudent View Post
    Good point... but a stiff heavy bag is closer to the texture and shape of a person than a block of concrete.

    Okay.

    You do not train hitting concrete.

    You train using a bag full of steel shot.

    You also train with buckets full of beans and steel shot for the fingers.

    breaking is to show your structure and application of power is working in tandem.

    So my question for you is do you train your claws with accesory training?

    if you do not how do you expect to really use them?

    and be careful you are starting to sound like Bruce Downey with all these references to using claws without training them.







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