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  1. migo is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 5:22pm


     Style: Baboo Baby

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've often heard that the bone is stronger where it breaks after it heals. There should be plenty of research on this. I would assume there's also research on fractures.

    Another thing, for kids who are born with one leg shorter, they're told not to have cushioning or raised heels to compensate because the increased shock will stimulate bone growth.

    Given those things, bone conditioning is itself not an outlandish idea.

    However, what seems to confound it, is shin breaks all seem to happen to Muay Thai fighters who have done lots of shin conditioning. We've got some evidence that points to traditional bone conditioning leading to weaker bones...
  2. lionknight is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 5:24pm


     Style: Much striking, SAMBO, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Dugas View Post
    karate people have no idea how to condition their bodies or their hands correctly.

    many karateka die from stomach and heart issues as those meridians are messed up with insane external only conditioning.

    Please provide proof of these statements.
  3. kenpostudent is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 5:33pm


     Style: American Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Dugas View Post
    It is a test. Can you break using structure versus sheer power generation.

    can you break without jumping up and using mere bodyweight or a slap from a relaxed structure.

    If you train in Kempo and seriously think you are going to claw into peoples faces and palm them down without training your hands, you are not being realistic.

    You will be much better if you train your hands.

    Untrained hands will break.

    Trained hands will not.
    I have clawed peoples' faces and hit people with palm strikes. I didn't hurt my hand one bit. I still don't understand the need to break concrete. I would never claw someone to a hard surface, like the skull. That would be insane. Palm stikes to the jaw or cheekbones are not likely to break the hand and hardly require Iron Palm training. If you hit with the heel of the hand, chances are you'll be fine.

    I get the need to hit a harder surface from time to time, stiff heavy bag with no gloves maybe or a makiwari board... but concrete? Isn't that a little overkill?
  4. Valiss is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 6:07pm


     Style: Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kenpostudent View Post
    I have clawed peoples' faces and hit people with palm strikes. I didn't hurt my hand one bit. I still don't understand the need to break concrete. I would never claw someone to a hard surface, like the skull. That would be insane. Palm stikes to the jaw or cheekbones are not likely to break the hand and hardly require Iron Palm training. If you hit with the heel of the hand, chances are you'll be fine.

    I get the need to hit a harder surface from time to time, stiff heavy bag with no gloves maybe or a makiwari board... but concrete? Isn't that a little overkill?
    I think he's asking you to demo on him, sir.

    I dont even know what "Jiulong Baguazhang" is, but it must be pretty hardcore.
    Last edited by Valiss; 5/20/2009 6:10pm at .
  5. IMightBeWrong is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 6:17pm


     Style: 9mm/Judo/BJJ/MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Valiss View Post
    I think he's asking you to demo on him, sir.

    I dont even know what "Jiulong Baguazhang" is, but it must be pretty hardcore.
    Its the art of the circle, the deadliest shape of them all...
    "Intelligence is nothing more than discussing things with others. Limitless wisdom comes of this." - 山本 常朝
  6. kenpostudent is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 6:22pm


     Style: American Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If I ever need to break concrete, I'll go rent a jackhammer.
  7. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 6:31pm

    supporting member
     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kenpostudent View Post
    If I ever need to break concrete, I'll go rent a jackhammer.
    1. Your missing the point.

    2. You are adding nothing to this thread.

    3. Your statements are not as witty as you think they are.
  8. Gbemi is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 6:39pm


     Style: BJJ (faixa branca)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Petter View Post
    Not a bad idea at first glance, but there’s a huge confounding variable: White belts will on average tend to have inferior punching technique, and a higher injury rate may reasonably be ascribed to that rather than to any difference due to conditioning. A similar argument is applicable to the kickboxers, who have less experience in bare-knuckled punching techniques. (There may be no difference, but in order to eliminate this variable you have to show that there is no difference.)



    Uechi-style kicks? Or just conditioning stuff? Either way, ouch.
    mmmm, how about white belts vs Kbers with <6 mos training? would that eliminate comfounding variables? Or just match them solely on # of months training.

    Don't know how to fix the glove/no glove problem.

    re: kicks. Matsubayashi toe tip kick. kicking with the big toe fully extended. The kick is useless unless you condition the toe for an absurd amount of time. I've kicked makiwara, heavy bags, light kicks to my bed frame. The joints end up impacting each other and my podiatrist actually said that I'd have to shave almost a quarter inch from my second phalange (is that correct?) to get my toe back to normal. Only problem is, that means no training for 3 months and even my walks will have to be brief.

    Don't do it kids.
  9. Mor Sao is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 6:54pm

    supporting member
     Style: Jook Lum South Mantis,

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by diesel_tke View Post
    1. Your missing the point.

    2. You are adding nothing to this thread.

    3. Your statements are not as witty as you think they are.
    agreed.

    It is not about breaking concrete.

    it is about being able to hit and not break the hands and use every part of the hand. back of the hand, knife edge, fingers, hammerfist.

    If you think you can really strike people and hurt them without training your hands. you are incorrect.

    try hitting them harder next time or use the back of your hand and see what happens to your untrained hands.

    You will hurt them.







  10. kenpostudent is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 6:55pm


     Style: American Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by diesel_tke View Post
    1. Your missing the point.

    2. You are adding nothing to this thread.

    3. Your statements are not as witty as you think they are.
    Whatever. Learn the difference between a possessive pronoun and a contraction.

    Again, what training value is there in breaking concrete with your bare hands? If you argue that you will strike harder, I will counter that you can knock someone out just fine without being able to break concrete. If you argue that it is a test of skill or some show of manhood, fine. Some lame ego boost is the only real benefit that I can see from the endeavor. If the argument is that you will be less likely to break your hand, then that is reasonable, but again, overkill. I can't break concrete but I can hit you full force with a fist or a palm strike and not break my hand. I still don't see the point. So, maybe I am missing the point. Please enlighten me... and look up the difference between a possessive and a contraction before you do.
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