9/23/2009 7:23pm, #481
Lightly at first. Punch too hard, and you damage your knuckles, stopping you from further training for a while.
It is a long term process of slight trauma, then healing, slight trauma then healing.
Over time the nerves become deadened, the knuckles become calloused, and you do build up calcium deposits on the bones. Eventually, your soft strikes become harder and harder. To the point that after about six years of this, when I lightly tap people, they complain that I knocked the **** out of them. I can nail lamp posts, walls, and solid wood beams like I'm working a speed bag without much discomfort. If you can wail on solid metal, you can really do damage to something soft and mailable like say, a human face.
Never go full power against the hard stuff. You will cause serious damage to your hands. Like I said, work your way up slowly, and treat it like a speed bag. Never full force. It's not your full force that gets increased, but your minimum force. Eventually your weakest strikes will carry a lot of power, and you wont hurt yourself when your bare fists intersect someone else's bones or teeth.
Do I have a medical study to back this up? no. Sorry, I have only my experience, which I got into because of friends who could work out on steel lamp posts without even flinching. I tried their methods for shits and giggles, and got similar results.
Am I going to try and sell you some snake oil? hell no.
Are you going to tell me I'm full of ****? Probably.
Do I care? Not a bit.
Good luck finding that solid evidence in either direction, and train safe!:bully:
9/23/2009 7:33pm, #482
It sounds like you have read Iron and Silk and train very much like Pan Qing Fu, who does have deformed hands that I bet will not work all that well in his later years.
you cannot be taken serious without video of your "training" and your hitting of solid objects.
hence I put up video of my breaks.
Why post up this information unless you do really care about what we think.
Video or you are just blowing smoke
Last edited by Mor Sao; 9/23/2009 7:41pm at .
9/23/2009 7:56pm, #483
Honestly boss, I don't know the first thing when it comes to performing breaks like you do. And I'm not going to lie to you guys and say I could do it without injuring myself. I know that I would mess my hands up bad if I hauled off an punched a cinder block full force. While that would be an amusing video, I will have to respectfully decline. (Do you really want to see me hitting a wall with moderate intensity over and over again anyways? It's kind of boring.)
I only do this stuff for conditioning, and not nearly on the level of the guy in Iron and Silk. (I'm not a pro, just an enthusiast.) The person who really got me into it though, was a friend who grew up doing karate. His regimen consisted of being whacked with bamboo in key places to harden both striking surfaces, and places where he would be hit. A high calcium diet ensured that his bones healed properly. Probably better for a young man who is still growing and resilient. But in any case, I once watched him fight a lamp post and win. You could also hit him as hard as you wanted square in his jaw, and only succeed in becoming his next lamp post...
As for what you guys think? The OP asked, so I figured I'd chime in with my experience. Take it for what it is. Think what you want. I expect to be flamed in this place anyways. It serves me nothing to get all butt hurt about the opinion of others.
You obviously know more about this than I do, so maybe you can help me out?
Where do you teach? Maybe I could train with you sometime and improve my skills.
9/23/2009 8:05pm, #484
I went round and round in the TMA forum over this and took a lot of flack.
I do Shorin ryu now and they harden the bodies hardcore. My Kyokushin school made it kind of optional although knuckle pushups and the makiwara were common.
When I go against the forearms of the nidans, invariably the pain makes me cease. I am unable to decide whether there is actually a signficant difference in bone density or pain resistance is the cause.
I did witness a color belt go against the forearms of one of the nidans, and his arms swelled up. The nidan was unharmed. I can't really account for that.
Although I have done little conditioning of the hands, I have broken a stack of five boards with a hammer fist, without spacers.
Anyway, I'm more inclined to believe it is true than I was, but it's hard to say."We often joke -- and we really wish it were a joke -- that you will only encounter two basic problems with your 'self-defense' training.
1) That it doesn't work
2) That it does work"
9/23/2009 8:07pm, #485
I teach in Boston.
Click on the links in my sig to see more information. If you cannot see them you can visit my site at Boston Baguazhang
Would love to meet up.
I can show you how not to hurt your hands.
3/09/2011 3:50am, #486
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
- Ontario, Canada
- Tae Kwon-Do, Fencing
It is not the burden of a skeptic to disprove something accepted. Things that are accepted should be accepted on the basis of evidence, not merely anecdote.
Or to use a controversial example, no it is not the duty of the atheist to disprove an omnipotent god, nor is it possible.
2/17/2015 2:28pm, #487
- Join Date
- Aug 2010
- fountain valley
- shotokan karate, iaido
im perplexed kinda
So I was thinking like many arguments there are two sides to every coin.
On the one hand I can break wood and bricks with a closed fist, with a palm strike not a problem. I have broken wood with a thumb strike *this one is no fun* and as I read the thread I have to see I kinda agree with it's worthlessness.
I mean if I hit a guy in the joy buzzer or submit him the above is practically worthless, I may not hurt myself as much but does that make much of a difference? Against an untrained fighter no...against a trained fighter maybe just a tad.
But then it got me thinking...why did I do it? I did it cause in Karate I was trained to, I was trained that we are training to fight armored opponents and that this is what is necessary to penetrate their armor. So in that I can see value...but we are in the year 2015...who wears that type of armor anymore to need to hit with that level of power?
I mean if a guy can hit another guy with 1000 pounds of pressure great job...but if all you need is 300 pounds to drop him like a rock...what good is the other 700? Just to say you can kill a guy with a single hit if the situation called for it? Well I think truthfully most could if we hit the right place...
2/18/2015 10:14pm, #488
What the **** are you talking about.
Its been 4 years since anyone has looked at this thread.
Verbal diarrhea sucks.
2/19/2015 2:58pm, #489
What you can do with these skills and whether or not they are useful in any way is a totally different argument from "do they/why do they" actually happen, which is the point of this thread. Science supports that all sorts of physical activity and stress strengthens body structures of all kinds. Experts have already weighed in to this thread...we don't need necrotic philosophical discussions.
2/19/2015 7:11pm, #490