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  1. SifuAbel is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/13/2009 10:23pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: LongFist CMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Is anybody an actual MD in here? Only they are qualified to say anything.
    I wake up in the morning and look in the mirror and I see STUPID looking back.
  2. NJM is offline
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    Putting the "ow" back in "flowery technique"

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    Posted On:
    6/13/2009 10:27pm


     Style: CMA, MT

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SifuAbel View Post
    Is anybody an actual MD in here? Only they are qualified to say anything.
    An MD came on here who had done Karate and had several misconceptions about conditioning in general, I don't think the thread exited newbietown.
  3. SifuJason is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/13/2009 11:01pm


     Style: WHKD (Kaju), Sub. Grapple

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SifuAbel View Post
    Is anybody an actual MD in here? Only they are qualified to say anything.
    I'm a med student, and I have asked MDs about this very question. In all honesty, PhD physiologists studying bone would probably know the most about this though.
  4. SifuAbel is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/14/2009 12:30am

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     Style: LongFist CMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm not going to get into this one. Suffice to say you guys are barking up the wrong tree with IP. External IP may be about turning your hand into a calloused lump. And it may be about making the bones tougher through micro stress fractures. But the internal IP is much more about increasing tissue in the hand. Increasing its mass. The bone toughening is secondary.

    carry on.















    quacks.
    I wake up in the morning and look in the mirror and I see STUPID looking back.
  5. EmetShamash is online now
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    Posted On:
    6/14/2009 12:44am


     Style: Chinese Martial Arts

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Alright, I don't know much about this stuff, but can't we measure bone density with ultrasound or other cheaper methods? My friend was telling me he saw people in a mall kiosk doing bone testing for frak's sake.

    And how do people feel about the combat effectiveness of denser bones in the hands? If IP works to make denser hands that can prevent injury when punching a hard surfaces like facial bones wouldn't that make someone considerably tougher?

    I would imagine that Captains of Crunch and other hand exercises would make for denser bones in the hands as well. My real curiosity is whether such exercises like COC and what not would be better for this type of conditioning. If I could just do knuckle pushups or squeeze some grippers instead of the tedious Iron Palm training to get the same or better results I would be all over it.
  6. SifuJason is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/14/2009 8:28am


     Style: WHKD (Kaju), Sub. Grapple

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by EmetShamash View Post
    Alright, I don't know much about this stuff, but can't we measure bone density with ultrasound or other cheaper methods? My friend was telling me he saw people in a mall kiosk doing bone testing for frak's sake.

    And how do people feel about the combat effectiveness of denser bones in the hands? If IP works to make denser hands that can prevent injury when punching a hard surfaces like facial bones wouldn't that make someone considerably tougher?

    I would imagine that Captains of Crunch and other hand exercises would make for denser bones in the hands as well. My real curiosity is whether such exercises like COC and what not would be better for this type of conditioning. If I could just do knuckle pushups or squeeze some grippers instead of the tedious Iron Palm training to get the same or better results I would be all over it.
    I can't comment on other techniques you may have seen at the mall. All I can tell you is what is the medical standard for measuring bone density changes. It's likely other techniques could tell between low density bones and high density bones, but be unable to discriminate between changes in those bone populations; regular x-ray has this problem for instance.

    In regards to IP training verses other forms, I don't think there is any scientific data out their. Personally, I don't like IP, because of the damage you can do to your hands (open-hand IP is fine though, it's just destroying your knuckles I have issues with). I mostly work "iron shirt" type techniques (ie shins, thighs, forearms, arms and ribs).

    I also don't know if IP can really develop you enough to prevent more severe hand damage that can occur from striking. It's likely to help in moderate/marginal cases (ie where it could break for some people but won't for your IP hands), but I am skeptical that it can prevent "boxer's fractures" and other things where there is severe impact.
  7. SifuJason is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/14/2009 8:35am


     Style: WHKD (Kaju), Sub. Grapple

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SifuAbel View Post
    I'm not going to get into this one. Suffice to say you guys are barking up the wrong tree with IP. External IP may be about turning your hand into a calloused lump. And it may be about making the bones tougher through micro stress fractures. But the internal IP is much more about increasing tissue in the hand. Increasing its mass. The bone toughening is secondary.

    carry on.

    quacks
    Arrogant statements like this really piss me off, especially when they are off-topic. We are specifically talking about building bone density, not internal IP. Feel free to start another thread about internal IP, and increasing tissue in your hand (or what ever limb you are focusing on).

    However, since you mentioned increasing mass as your goal, I would like to point out that bone is denser than tissue, and since your hands have a lot of bone by volume in them, increasing the density of the bone in your hand seems to be most efficient way to increase the mass of your hand (density = mass/volume).
  8. SifuAbel is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/14/2009 1:03pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: LongFist CMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    quack
    I wake up in the morning and look in the mirror and I see STUPID looking back.
  9. NJM is offline
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    Putting the "ow" back in "flowery technique"

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    Posted On:
    6/14/2009 1:06pm


     Style: CMA, MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SifuJason View Post
    Arrogant statements like this really piss me off, especially when they are off-topic. We are specifically talking about building bone density, not internal IP. Feel free to start another thread about internal IP, and increasing tissue in your hand (or what ever limb you are focusing on).

    However, since you mentioned increasing mass as your goal, I would like to point out that bone is denser than tissue, and since your hands have a lot of bone by volume in them, increasing the density of the bone in your hand seems to be most efficient way to increase the mass of your hand (density = mass/volume).
    If it were possible to increase muscle/fat/ligament tissue mass wouldn't that increase faster and in larger amounts than bone density?

    We're just talking speculation right now btw.
  10. SifuAbel is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/14/2009 1:14pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: LongFist CMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The basic flaw with most EVERY argument that comes up here that includes IP is the irrelevant comment made from people that don't do it, have never seen it, and don't know anybody who has it. (except for Dale etc. ) Its all speculation and supposition.

    Quackery.

    You want to know about the different IP results? Go to someone that has it. Instead of making this some lame mental exercise, go out and see for yourselves, FIRST HAND.

    "...to the skeptic, no evidence will suffice."


    Oh here I go again. ta ta.
    I wake up in the morning and look in the mirror and I see STUPID looking back.

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