Where is the proof that 'Bone Conditioning' isn't BS?

[1point2]

No BS Martial Arts - View Single Post - No, You Do NOT F*cking "Do Karate".

and

No BS Martial Arts - View Single Post - Friend believes in "hard body training"

I doubt any studies have been done to explore, specifically, iron palm, iron shirt, makiwara, or kicking trees.

[ChickenBeakFist]

Will anyone rise to the challenge of finding or making the science to test the hypothesis, "repeatedly striking surfaces at escalating levels of force eventually produces a change in bone structure useful in a martial arts context" and associated specifics, or will this thread sink like a fucking stone?

It sounds like you've already made up your mind. What do you expect to get out of this thread other than the smug satisfaction that comes from vaingloriously ejaculating onto the tits of your own ego?

[Chili Pepper]

vegitarianism seems, in fact, almost totally counter-intuative as I would think protien and calcium would be factors.

Plenty of protein and calcium available through vegetable sources.

[Tom Kagan]

Someone posted a study recently (within the past month). It was a peer-reviewed study of judo, karate and something else.

Judoka do not typically engage in explicit "bone conditioning" exercises.

[ChickenBeakFist]

Found these on PubMed.org (search time < 10 minutes)

Antonov SG, Shustov VN. Roentgenogrammetric analysis demonstrated a more intensive development in the II and III metacarpal hand bones, as well as in the forearm bones in karatists comparing to those in boxers and football players. The transversal diameter of the medullary cavity was less in the karatists. Visual analysis of the roentgenograms demonstrated presence of sesamoid bones in the area of the proximal interphalangeal joints II and III in the fingers of the karatists, waist thickening on the medial surface of the proximal and middle digital phalanges, a sharp thickening of the compact substance layer in the area of the inferior third of the medial surface of the ulnar bone.
PMID: 7115107 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Pecht VS, Raschka Ch. Chirurgische Abteilung, HELIOS St. Elisabeth Klinik, Hünfeld. SPecht@huenfeld.helios-kliniken.de
Over a period of 25 years a 40-year-old taekwondo world champion had conditioned his hand for so-called "breaking championships", by repeatedly striking progressively harder materials (sand, dried peas, a mixture of dried peas and small stones, and such like). An MRI investigation revealed an augmentation of tissue between the heads of the metacarpals. The biomechanical effect resulting from this "smoothing" of the striking area of the fist is to reduce the peak load acting on the prominent bony elements on impact, and thus reduce the risk of injury. The build-up of tissue represents a response of connective tissue to repetitive microtrauma.
PMID: 16281784 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Crosby AC.

The hands and wrists of 22 karate instructors who had practiced the
sport for a minimum of five years were reviewed. Radiological evidence
of a total of ten fractures was found. There was no evidence that
practice of the sport predisposed to the early onset of chronic
tenosynovitis or osteoarthritis.

PMID: 3995229

[kenpostudent]

So what? Even if this is true, please tell me the value of hand conditioning. If you travel to Middle Earth and fight walking trees, I can maybe see the point. Otherwise, why do you need to be able to break rocks, boards, and cinder blocks?

[leyon]

Judoka do not typically engage in explicit "bone conditioning" exercises.

The interesting thing from reading the quoted study 1point2 linked was that Judo players had the highest bone mass density (with least variance too!), compared to Karate and Water Polo players.

[TrueKarateKid]

So what? Even if this is true, please tell me the value of hand conditioning. If you travel to Middle Earth and fight walking trees, I can maybe see the point. Otherwise, why do you need to be able to break rocks, boards, and cinder blocks?

I suppose in theory it's a hit harder thing. If your bones are denser and stronger, you'll be able to hit harder than someone who's bones are not. You'll also be less likely to damage bones that are stronger if you hit someone in a spot that's not a good place to hit (like the top of the skull for example?).

[Tom Kagan]

The interesting thing from reading the quoted study 1point2 linked was that Judo players had the highest bone mass density (with least variance too!), compared to Karate and Water Polo players.

So, Judoka aren't fat; they're big boned?

[Dr. Sleepless]

Bone conditioning always perplexed me. It's a lot of time spent doing something with very little evidence works that is good for.... what?