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  1. Mor Sao is offline
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    Nothing for Show, All for use

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    Posted On:
    5/21/2009 4:02pm

    supporting member
     Style: Jook Lum South Mantis,

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyCache View Post
    so your actual belief, please correct me if I misspeak, I'm attempting to draw from your own words - your actual belief is that by dropping the hand relatively gently from a height of a few feet you are damaging it enough to thicken it or increase its weight?

    Also which "camp" are you re doing this on one hand/both hands/etc?
    The bag that I am using in my personal practice is 70 pounds of metal shot.

    I train my dominant hand.

    Over time you will move the whole body in a connected movement and you will strike with less movement of the limb but the coordination of the body will impart movement through the limb connecting with the bag.

    Where I teach in Chinatown I have a 70 pound bag in the corner.

    It makes loud cracks when I drop my hand on it.

    People think Im hitting the bag hard.

    I am not.

    Im dropping my hand on it.
    Last edited by Mor Sao; 5/21/2009 4:09pm at .







  2. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    5/21/2009 4:04pm

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     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thread moved to MABS.
    Original title: "Bone Conditioning is BS"
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  3. JohnnyCache is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/21/2009 4:15pm

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     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    why did you change the title of this thread?
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  4. JohnnyCache is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/21/2009 4:16pm

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     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Dugas View Post
    The bag that I am using in my personal practice is 70 pounds of metal shot.

    I train my dominant hand.

    Over time you will move the whole body in a connected movement and you will strike with less movement of the limb but the coordination of the body will impart movement through the limb connecting with the bag.

    Where I teach in Chinatown I have a 70 pound bag in the corner.

    It makes loud cracks when I drop my hand on it.

    People think Im hitting the bag hard.

    I am not.

    Im dropping my hand on it.
    so your actual belief, please correct me if I misspeak, I'm attempting to draw from your own words - your actual belief is that by dropping the hand relatively gently from a height of a few feet you are damaging it enough to thicken it or increase its weight?
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  5. 1point2 is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/21/2009 4:16pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 剛 and 柔

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Original title implied you were proving something. In fact you are asserting something and asking for disproof, which the new title reflects.
    Last edited by JohnnyCache; 5/21/2009 4:26pm at .
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates
  6. JohnnyCache is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/21/2009 4:26pm

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     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2 View Post
    Original title implied you were proving something. In fact you are asserting something and asking for disproof, which the new title reflects.



    I see what you're saying. I thought Tom changed the thread to what he did to make it synonymous with "Prove the iron palm isn't BS" (addressing it to me by changing the title as he so often does when placing something in the idiot quarantine)

    Also, I hit the edit post button instead of quote and originally typed this in your post instead of as a reply - that's where the edit stamp comes from.

    Actually chose to simply put the assertion I was making in the thread title to hopefully emphasize the use of the scientific method in the thread: That an assertion is made and tested.

    Before someone says, "Well you made a NEGATIVE assertion because you said it DOESN'T work and that's asking someone to PROVE A NEGATIVE, no, I didn't. The negative assumption fallacy is made in reply to criticism of an additive statement:

    "I want to add Iron Palm/cancer cure x/unicorns to the body of knowledge"

    "Show why it should be added"

    "Show why it shouldn't" <-- the negative fallacy

    Making you show why it should be added is NOT a negative just because when stated as a sentence it has the word "not" or "doesn't" in it.
    Last edited by JohnnyCache; 5/21/2009 4:36pm at .
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  7. Snake Plissken is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/21/2009 4:33pm

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So far, JC I haven't been able to find anything specifically on martial arts use of bone strengthening through microfractures, only some stuff on weightlifting and osteoporosis and some abstracts in Anatomical and Orthopaedic Medical Journals discussing Wolff's Law, the half-dozen challenges to it over the years and "...many contemporary investigators still ascribe to the idea..."
  8. Kintanon is offline
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    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Posted On:
    5/21/2009 4:35pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Depending on repetition and your definition of lightly it may be enough to create microfractyres. This article: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freea...isnumber=11326 showed that as few as 8 standing high jumps could result in microfractures in the feet, whereas this article: http://fulltext.ausport.gov.au/fullt...wc/abs141a.htm said eleven jumps.

    Take it as you will....
  9. migo is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/21/2009 4:36pm


     Style: Baboo Baby

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShark View Post
    The burden of proof seems unfairly high in this thread. For example this statement would be enough for me:

    "Conditioning my hands has made me able to break things that I used to not be able to break."

    However the opponents in this thread seem to want evidence that it is not only effective but contributes to some sort of bone growth that specifically aids striking. Why isn't efficacy enough in this thread vs almost all the other threads on Bullshido?

    YouTube - Baseball Bat Breaking
    This is a good point to a degree, but establishing whether there is scientific backing for some of the claims is of value to people deciding what they're going to train.
  10. JohnnyCache is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/21/2009 4:39pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintanon View Post
    Depending on repetition and your definition of lightly it may be enough to create microfractyres. This article: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freea...isnumber=11326 showed that as few as 8 standing high jumps could result in microfractures in the feet, whereas this article: http://fulltext.ausport.gov.au/fullt...wc/abs141a.htm said eleven jumps.

    Take it as you will....
    is a jump with your body weight landing on it equivalent to a hand falling the same distance?
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.

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