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  1. crappler is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/21/2009 3:08pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    And I say this as I intend to go and bash my fists against a post later today.
  2. JohnnyCache is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/21/2009 3:19pm

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     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by hornyhobo View Post
    Can't you just go to the doctor and take an x-ray or something? Then come back with some actual evidence, and not promises of demonstrations.

    Until we luck out and get an MD or an x-ray tech as a member, this will probably never be fiscally possible. And it's kind of hard to assemble it into a "before and after"

    and then it's hard to establish causation, even in IP guys that only do one hand - it it the training, or just working out only with one hand?
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  3. JohnnyCache is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/21/2009 3:20pm

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     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KidSpatula View Post
    The only "conditioning" muaythai fighters do is running, hitting the bag, hitting pads, swimming, climbing rope, sit ups... etc.. actual muaythai fighters do not bang their shins or kick palm trees or poor acid on their legs. Actual fighters spend their time doing ACTUAL FIGHT TRAINING, not this silly iron body bone hardening nonsense that only weekend warrior, non fighters bother wasting their time with.
    did thai fighters EVER actually do these things or does it all come from movies?
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  4. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/21/2009 3:22pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Frank White View Post
    I think Dale Dugas has a few threads on the subject of IP training as well as an article he might be able to post.
    The thread already contained JC and Dale's discussion in the last one IIRC.
    Last edited by It is Fake; 5/21/2009 3:26pm at .
  5. hornyhobo is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/21/2009 3:32pm


     Style: elbow smash

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyCache View Post
    Until we luck out and get an MD or an x-ray tech as a member, this will probably never be fiscally possible. And it's kind of hard to assemble it into a "before and after"

    and then it's hard to establish causation, even in IP guys that only do one hand - it it the training, or just working out only with one hand?
    Expense did occur to me, but I just don't see how else this could be proven.

    In regards to before and after, if the bone conditioning really is as effective as some say, then doctors might be able to compare a normal striker's bone density/strength to those who actively smash hands on concrete and other such extremes.
  6. Mor Sao is offline
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    Nothing for Show, All for use

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    Posted On:
    5/21/2009 3:46pm

    supporting member
     Style: Jook Lum South Mantis,

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here is a link to the article I wrote and had published in Kung Fu Qigong Magazine.

    http://www.bostonbaguazhang.com/imag...rticle0001.pdf







  7. Torakaka is offline
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    Do you eat breakfast?

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    Posted On:
    5/21/2009 3:46pm

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     Style: Kitty Pow Pow!!!

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyCache View Post
    did thai fighters EVER actually do these things or does it all come from movies?

    In Thailand there are banana trees, which are basically just tightly bound leaves. Basically nature's heavy bags. I don't really know the history of what sorts of crazy training the Thai's have typically done in the past.
    Ranked #9 internationally at 118lbs by WIKBA http://www.womenkickboxing.com/wikba...rch%202009.htm
  8. JohnnyCache is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/21/2009 3:49pm

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     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    yeah, but the individual starting point is gonna matter. If me and sirc posted our x-rays side by side and we told you I did iron palm, you'd all ooooo and ahhhh but I'm 8" taller then sirc - it would be bizzare if my finger bones weren't thicker.

    In fact, that's an interesting question right there - small people that hit hard. If IP gives an average person, an (asspulled) 20% increase in bone "density" or bone "weight" or something - how does that average person at 120% compare to a person 20% bigger or smaller by birth? Is he now the EQUAL of a guy with 40 pounds on him? Is a smaller guy doomed to shattering bones if he tries to hit hard? Whiteshark is smaller then me, but he probably hits as hard or a little harder - why doesn't he need my size of bones to do that safely? A more radical example - Roy Jones Jr, Anderson Silva - these guys, by frame, have smaller bones then many, many people that could never throw a knockout punch. So what's going on there?

    I'm of the personal belief that the architechtural structure of the hand and the properties of living bone are such that most people don't realize much benefit from striking objects. I don't think they are loading the bone enough to simulate weight lifting, I don't think they're micro-fracturing the bone enough then allowing enough healing to thicken it that way.

    I think the increase they report comes from learning hitting technique, acclimation to pain, and gains associated with excercise.

    There are so many questions of individual makeup that it's exhausting to try and isolate this training, but it interests me because it SO long running, SO prevelent, and so held in awe - particular vis a vis farcical demonstrations of "breaking power."
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  9. maxthegeek1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/21/2009 3:55pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyCache View Post
    WS: **** breaking. Bone conditioning via striking has NOTHING to do with breaking as far as I can see, except in the minds of people that do both.

    "I can break something I couldn't break before" is the epitome of unscientific, anecdotal, uncontrolled evidence.
    It seems to me that the only way to test this would be to take a few people who aren't doing any martial arts or other forms of exercise, put them through bone conditioning for a few months, then measure their bone density before and after.
    Last edited by maxthegeek1; 5/21/2009 3:57pm at .
  10. JohnnyCache is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/21/2009 3:57pm

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     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Dugas View Post
    Here is a link to the article I wrote and had published in Kung Fu Qigong Magazine.

    http://www.bostonbaguazhang.com/imag...rticle0001.pdf

    so your actual belief, please correct me if I misspeak, I'm attempting to draw from your own words - your actual belief is that by dropping the hand relatively gently from a height of a few feet you are damaging it enough to thicken it or increase its weight?

    Also which "camp" are you re doing this on one hand/both hands/etc?
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.

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