No Gi Scissor sweeps

**Blue Negation** · Posted On: 5/19/2009 2:47pm

Karo Parisyan covers using the downward ude garami grip for scissor sweeping no-gi in his Judo for MMA book. If either of you have it, JP or JohnnyCache, it's a pretty good reference for the move. He actually has a good series of techniques with the scissor, triangle, ude garami.

Because you control his wrist with the ude garami/kimura grip, he can't post (analagous to sleeve grip). Because you control his shoulder with the lock, you have some control over his posture (analagous to collar grip). Try getting the grip and then putting a knee in, as for the scissor sweep. From there it's pretty easy.

I would be very interested in seeing your method, coach Josh. Especially this roll to jujigatame you mention. Any further details?

**oldman34** · Posted On: 5/19/2009 2:49pm

Originally Posted by Coach Josh

Udegarami fixes all you problems.

This makes sense since I can force his body the way I want to sweep.
I havent ever tried it from the guard, only when standing and it has never really worked for me there.
I will try that tonight. It is gonna take a lot pof practice though.

Thanks for the idea.

Originally Posted by JohnnyCache

Also, a lot of people get used to doing this in discrete stages with a gi on - in nogi, you have to do it all at once. I would call that the blessing and the curse of nogi.

I think thats where my problem lies. I am used to setting it up in two stages.
1) Gain control of the sweep side hand
2) Grab the gi high and position my feet.

I usually wait until they try to pass by posturing up/stacking me , and then sweep while their base is higher off the floor.

Originally Posted by Kintanon

no one uses the underhook for this? That's how I hit it almost every time. Grab wrist with left hand (or tricep) then underhook on that to load them onto my shin. Oncetheir weight is on my shin it's an easy dump.

Underhooking the side opposite the arm you control right?
I see where loading them can help increase the chances. So your way goes..
Assuming a sweep left
1) control sweeping side arm at tricep
2) underhook opposite side
3) load them on the shin (of the hooking leg)
4) lift with the loaded leg and sweep with the floor leg

All of this has helped a great deal. Thanks.

Is there perhaps a better sweep for no gi?

**Blue Negation** · Posted On: 5/19/2009 2:53pm

Originally Posted by oldman34

Is there perhaps a better sweep for no gi?

The scissor sweep does lose some power without the gripping ability of the gi. Thus there are lots of "better" sweeps for no gi, but there isn't a clear analogue or anything, except the ude garami/kimura grip scissor, which works anyway in gi.

What do you mean, exactly? Are you looking for other sweeps that don't lose effectiveness in no-gi?

***JohnnyCache*** · Posted On: 5/19/2009 2:56pm

I don't underhook the arm because personally I'm usually able to move the guy without doing it (hence the import of hooking his thigh) and I think going for the neck aces out his arm better

Scissors is SO bread and butter I don't see it ever dropping off my no-gi radar. I think doing it from the tricep instead of the wrist will help a ton right off the bat (actually gi or nogi)

One important factor is in nogi it's better set up by something your opponent does - it's harder to break them out of posture with it. When we train, we always do light punching and I've typically set it up off of a face punch or cross face or failed upa - getting him loose and forward helps. Of course, that's true of most passes.

**Zapruder** · Posted On: 5/19/2009 3:06pm

I dont know if you will be able to answer but, when are you trying to hit this sweep? I use this sweep a lot but I very rarely control more than just one arm, and sometimes not even that.

I will explain more, but either ask questions or let me know I am making sense.

**UpaLumpa** · Posted On: 5/19/2009 4:26pm

The scissor sweep is my primary sweep, both gi and no-gi. I have pretty much an equivalent success with it in either. The reason for this has nothing to do with grips but rather due to timing and kuzushi (to borrow a judo term).

Originally Posted by Zapruder

I dont know if you will be able to answer but, when are you trying to hit this sweep? I use this sweep a lot but I very rarely control more than just one arm, and sometimes not even that.

Like Zapruder, I often get the scissor sweep with very little control. In no-gi, I hit it with just grabbed wrist.

Originally Posted by oldman34

Is there perhaps a better sweep for no gi?

No can defend... no.
Different people do better with different sweeps. My no-gi go to sweeps are the same as my go to's in gi: Scissor and Hip bump

**UpaLumpa** · Posted On: 5/19/2009 4:26pm

Oh, I have (only against blues) also gotten what is basically a scissor sweep while still partially in half rather than full guard.

Kuzushi.

**oldman34** · Posted On: 5/19/2009 4:50pm

Originally Posted by Blue Negation

What do you mean, exactly? Are you looking for other sweeps that don't lose effectiveness in no-gi?

Yeah, I was wondering if there were sweeps that didnt lose as much of the effectiveness. More like I was looking for two things.
1) How to alter my grip for no gi (nogi?)
2) If there was a sweep that you more experienced guys have had luck with in no gi.

Originally Posted by Zapruder

I dont know if you will be able to answer but, when are you trying to hit this sweep? I use this sweep a lot but I very rarely control more than just one arm, and sometimes not even that.

I will explain more, but either ask questions or let me know I am making sense.

You are making sense.

I usually try to hit this sweep as soon as I pull guard. This way I can catch them before they can establish their base well. If I miss it then I try to make them stack me or posture up. I seem to have short arms so the ankle sweeps are a little more difficult for me to pull off when they stack me so I try to prevent it.

When you use one arm do you place your grip at the tricep like was mentioned earlier?

Originally Posted by UpaLumpa

Hip bump

I have decent luck with the hip bump. I usually go to it when I cant get the kimura from guard.
It is most likely my timing on this one.

**Zapruder** · Posted On: 5/19/2009 5:04pm

Well, Upa stole my thunder. I normally go for wrist control so I can threaten with a kimura/kneebar combo that I oh so love.

My advice would be to wait to throw the sweep. Test when you can just get a tilt and not the full sweep; you will then be close to the right timing and can adjust accordingly.

Kuzushi

**UpaLumpa** · Posted On: 5/19/2009 5:37pm

Originally Posted by Zapruder

Well, Upa stole my thunder. I normally go for wrist control so I can threaten with a kimura/kneebar combo that I oh so love.

Yeah, no-gi I hit it off of pretty minimal control. What is interesting is that with the guys I train with the sweep is now what the threat is for me, opening up other things.