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  1. HonkyTonkMan is offline
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    Y SO SRIUS?

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    Posted On:
    5/19/2009 11:21am

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     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    No Gi Scissor sweeps

    I couldnt find an answer for this so maybe someon can help me out.

    My favorite sweep is the scissor sweep. Its just a basic ass sweep that I seem to have down pat, except for when we are doing no gi grappling.
    I have just recently started no gi grappling after a bit of a break from gi grappling.
    In the normal scissor sweep I will grab their left lapel (my right hand) their right sleeve (with my left) and sweep to my left. (left leg low and right instep on their waist.
    I am not as comfortable going to my right for some reason. I digress.

    In no gi there doesnt seem to be a suitable place for my right hand (lapel grabbing hand). I can always grab their wrist for my low hand. I have tried to side of the neck and dont seem to be getting the desired results as often since my opponent can lower his head to my chest and reduce my leverage. I have tried putting their neck in my elbow crook but this keeps them lower to my chest making it harder to get the sweep off.

    Should I just abandon the scissor during no gi? Does anyone have any luck with this sweep in no gi?
  2. DKJr is online now
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    Fasten your seat belts, and prepare for lift off

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    Posted On:
    5/19/2009 11:33am

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     Style: Combat Cuddling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Grab the top of their head if they are a posture monkey. If they are staying low and tight, pretend you're doing thumb in the collar or a forearm choke with your hand cupping their right lat. Use this forearm pressure to get their head up.
  3. JohnnyCache is offline
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    All Out of Bubblegum

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    Posted On:
    5/19/2009 12:15pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Also, a lot of people get used to doing this in discrete stages with a gi on - in nogi, you have to do it all at once. I would call that the blessing and the curse of nogi.

    I sometimes can get with my "high" hand on the back of the neck, but sometimes I have to move my hand as I sweep - breaking posture on the back of the neck, followed by reversing the pressure by moving my hand to the (if I'm going to roll the guy to my left) guy's left pectoral or his sternum. (IE palm on his pec, fingers curved into his armpit)

    Basically, you fake him out to get him to rear up and make space by pulling on his neck, then pushing on his chest when he resists. You need to have his tricep already when you do this.

    Then, as he tips, if you need more torsion, move back to the back of the neck on that side for the base to tip him - once your knee is under his belly and he's starting to move, you can risk balling him up a little. You do this very hard, it's almost a strike when your bicep/forearm hits his neck.

    We've got guys that are good at this and basically pass with closed posture on purpose so that they land in a head-down mount.

    Also, w/o a sleeve to grip, try to get above the elbow. You can do his with a reverse grip if he's up with his forearms on your chest, but if you're sweeping to counter, or if he's a meaty, buff guy in the fashionable BJJ manner, just grab his fucking tricep. The key is you're locking that arm down so he can't post - when you push with it, you're going to push his elbow toward your sternum.

    You don't have a big, elastic steering wheel to whip him around with, so you're going to make a little one and crank him around, if that makes sense.


    really kick your legs hard - you just don't have the upper body "steering wheel" to muscle it with your arms. Doing this nogi, your leg isn't just the bar he trips over. In terms of floor geometry, when you kick, you want your ass to be outside of his left hip (assuming you're sweeping to your left) so you aren't doing everything with your top quad.

    Finally, make sure you're pulling him "UPWARDS" - dragging him toward your head as well as to the side. Again, this is easier if you have him by the tricep. This lets you keep momentum if he ducks, and it helps you land in mount "just right" You do this by hooking the right foot on his ass or thigh - this wedges him "up" over you and lightens his hips.

    blerg. I'm glad it doesn't take as long to do as it does to describe.
    Last edited by JohnnyCache; 5/19/2009 12:30pm at .
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  4. Coach Josh is offline
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    Silent Guardian

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    Posted On:
    5/19/2009 12:23pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Gladiators Academy Lafayette, LA Style: Judo, MMA, White Trash JJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Udegarami fixes all you problems.
    Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.
  5. Kintanon is offline
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    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Posted On:
    5/19/2009 12:26pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    no one uses the underhook for this? That's how I hit it almost every time. Grab wrist with left hand (or tricep) then underhook on that to load them onto my shin. Oncetheir weight is on my shin it's an easy dump.
  6. JohnnyCache is offline
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    All Out of Bubblegum

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    Posted On:
    5/19/2009 12:56pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Coach Josh View Post
    Udegarami fixes all you problems.

    You land that on a guy in your guard a lot? or are you talking about sweeping 2 on 1 with it?
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  7. JP is offline
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    It's all about the clinch. The clinch, I said.

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    Posted On:
    5/19/2009 1:06pm

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     Style: SAMBO, mma, jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyCache View Post
    You land that on a guy in your guard a lot? or are you talking about sweeping 2 on 1 with it?

    I'd like to know this as well.

    And on the heels of that: Are you talking about "finishing the lock" and using the pain to aid in the sweep or are you just using it remove part of his base and control him?
    Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
    and remember what peace there may be in silence.
    As far as possible, without surrender,
    be on good terms with all persons.
    Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
    and listen to others,
    even to the dull and ignorant;
    they too have their story.

    -excerpt of the poem called "Desiderata," by Max Ehrman, 1927.
  8. Coach Josh is offline
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    Silent Guardian

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    Posted On:
    5/19/2009 1:55pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Gladiators Academy Lafayette, LA Style: Judo, MMA, White Trash JJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Using it for the sweep. Rarely will you finish with it from guard but once you acquire it its the best possible grip nogi for a scissor sweep IMO.

    I actually have a nice series from this position using the udegarami grip. The last one in the series I actually back out and do a spin/flip onto the back and get into a jujigatami finish position we call the post. Really slick move with a decent finishing % but easy to screw up.
    Last edited by Coach Josh; 5/19/2009 2:01pm at .
    Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.
  9. JohnnyCache is offline
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    All Out of Bubblegum

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    Posted On:
    5/19/2009 2:05pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'd like to hear/see more on this because every time I've ever tried it, it ended up half-assed and stuffed by the top guy's free hand.
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  10. JP is offline
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    It's all about the clinch. The clinch, I said.

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    Posted On:
    5/19/2009 2:23pm

    supporting member
     Style: SAMBO, mma, jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Myself as well, because while I have used that grip before as a control, it never occurred to me to use it to move the guy.

    I can kind of see how that works in my head but a clip or something, or even a detailed write up would be great if you wouldn't mind.

    I'm out of commission for a while with an injury so I won't be able to try this in the gym anytime soon.
    Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
    and remember what peace there may be in silence.
    As far as possible, without surrender,
    be on good terms with all persons.
    Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
    and listen to others,
    even to the dull and ignorant;
    they too have their story.

    -excerpt of the poem called "Desiderata," by Max Ehrman, 1927.
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