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  1. King Sleepless is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/18/2009 5:01pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2 View Post
    I disagree with the fundamental assertion in the OP, to wit, that this "I suck but it's the best I can do" is the underlying cause of Bullshidoism. Many Bullshidoka do not even realize they are bullshitting--they have pulled the wool over their own eyes due to emotional issues, or are mentally unstable, or have had the wool pulled over their eyes and never did the scientific due-diligence to discover that they were deceived and not as bad-ass as they believe.

    What the OP is talking about is a rationalization, not a reason. He thinks that it is propter hoc but it is post hoc. He also roams way off of the bullshidoka argument in his attempt to plaster a "NOT TRYING HARD ENOUGH" sign on everyone who doesn't train the way he thinks.

    This is immature philosophy. Let's remember that Bullshido and McDojo are specific terms that mean specific things. Broadening their definition (as the OP is doing here, or rather, is attempting to do here) is like a hyperfeminist saying that all heterosexual intercourse is rape; it is an idiotic overextension of a valid observation.

    (See how I threw him a bone there? It is indeed a valid observation.)
    They rationalize reasons.

    I kind of just typed this up really quickly because I'm in between job sites right now and running home and running out so I didn't quite get the transition as I wanted to. But you get the idea.

    But the point I was trying to make is that they are rationalizing their excuses (deadliness, superior secret techniques, etc.) to stray from achieving success and aptitude.

    I don't know if you've ever come across a bullshido practitioner and offered to spar him. I do it every time I do. I gong sau them on the spot. They get flustered, their skin flushes, the excuse machine starts cranking in their mind. They know, they know deep down inside why they don't want to spar me. Because they know they'll lose. They know all their stuff doesn't mean anything. They've just never been presented with the obstacle to overcome.

    Most people are too nice to say anything to them. Just let them live in their little bubble until they find a tactful way to show them the light. My pragmatism usually gets in the way of tact, and I would just rather crucifix them and butt scoot into the light to show them.
  2. 1point2 is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/18/2009 5:06pm

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    i, um, I actually hear you...but...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcastro View Post
    I kind of just typed this up really quickly because I'm in between job sites right now and running home and running out so I didn't quite get the transition as I wanted to. But you get the idea.

    But the point I was trying to make


    Most people are too nice to say anything to them. Just let them live in their little bubble until they find a tactful way to show them the light. My pragmatism usually gets in the way of tact, and I would just rather crucifix them and butt scoot into the light to show them.
    In the bold part, you're making stupid excuses. Minor irony.

    Anyway, as for the non-bolded part--how well does this work? What's your success rate of turning these bullshidoka into contributing, sparring members of the martial arts community? I'd prefer separate numbers on Full-Out-Bullshidoka (Frank Dux, etc) separate from People-Who-Don't-Train-How-You-Want-Them-To (Japanese Jujutsuka).
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates
  3. JohnnyCache is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/18/2009 5:10pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2 View Post
    I disagree with the fundamental assertion in the OP, to wit, that this "I suck but it's the best I can do" is the underlying cause of Bullshidoism. Many Bullshidoka do not even realize they are bullshitting--they have pulled the wool over their own eyes due to emotional issues, or are mentally unstable, or have had the wool pulled over their eyes and never did the scientific due-diligence to discover that they were deceived and not as bad-ass as they believe.

    What the OP is talking about is a rationalization, not a reason. He thinks that it is propter hoc but it is post hoc. He also roams way off of the bullshidoka argument in his attempt to plaster a "NOT TRYING HARD ENOUGH" sign on everyone who doesn't train the way he thinks.

    This is immature philosophy. Let's remember that Bullshido and McDojo are specific terms that mean specific things. Broadening their definition (as the OP is doing here, or rather, is attempting to do here) is like a hyperfeminist saying that all heterosexual intercourse is rape; it is an idiotic overextension of a valid observation.

    (See how I threw him a bone there? It is indeed a valid observation.)
    You're thinking too hard. "my goal is not to be good but to do ______" is a stupid and self defeated statement. It arises from the braiding of masculinity into fighting skill - you don't hear it in any other hobby. "My goal is to have a nice hike, not catch fish"

    It's OK not to be SUPER COMPETITIVE and not everyone is going to end up in the polygon/thunderdome/whatever - but a goal divorced of improvement is a recipe for bad training.
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  4. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/18/2009 5:16pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyCache View Post
    It's OK not to be SUPER COMPETITIVE and not everyone is going to end up in the polygon/thunderdome/whatever - but a goal divorced of improvement is a recipe for bad training.
    Thanks, that is what I was looking for.
  5. King Sleepless is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/18/2009 5:21pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2 View Post
    i, um, I actually hear you...but...



    In the bold part, you're making stupid excuses. Minor irony.

    Anyway, as for the non-bolded part--how well does this work? What's your success rate of turning these bullshidoka into contributing, sparring members of the martial arts community? I'd prefer separate numbers on Full-Out-Bullshidoka (Frank Dux, etc) separate from People-Who-Don't-Train-How-You-Want-Them-To (Japanese Jujutsuka).
    I understand that you're trying to play devil's advocate, but you're doing it poorly and not picking at anything important.

    Despite my excuse, my writing still gets my point across, except to you, so I figured you might have a higher level of reading comprehension that needs further massaging to understand the deeper complexities of the subject. However, you lack skills of analogy. My excuse doesn't stop me from trying to achieve something and stay stagnant. You're trying to bring the stupid bullshit humor of YMAS into this thrad, and I want to say it right now, don't. Don't even fucking think about it. Just stop posting in here right now, I'll go make another thread you can **** in, just not in this one. Go rep fishing in there.

    However to answer your question, it actually works well. Mostly because I'm an aggressive asshole about it and I will pressure and pressure and pressure them until they crack. There was a guy in Japanese that told me he studied ninjutsu. I told him "I dabble in martial arts." and asked him for a friendly sparring match, he asked what I did and I listed off my experience. He did not want to spar. Every day. Every day I would pressure him. Every day I would ask him, in front of his friends, embarrass him when he had to say no and make up some reason why he couldn't, which they knew was a lie, because they are 1) his friends and know he was not doing whatever excuse he gave me, and 2) that he had never shown them any kind of skill in battle ever. After about 3 weeks, he finally confessed to me that he didn't want to spar because he only trained every so often at the Ninjutsu school and that he wasn't sure he could beat me without a weapon. He cracked. I told him about how much a lie most ninjutsu schools are and he started going to the PAL boxing league.

    I only meet these types every once in a while. Some are willing to spar and when they do and I stomp on them and explain why their art sucks, they look into new avenues. Some aren't and I just keep grilling them and hassling them aggressively until they decide to either avoid me or confess. There's really no other option except to kill me.
  6. King Sleepless is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/18/2009 5:24pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyCache View Post
    You're thinking too hard. "my goal is not to be good but to do ______" is a stupid and self defeated statement. It arises from the braiding of masculinity into fighting skill - you don't hear it in any other hobby. "My goal is to have a nice hike, not catch fish"

    It's OK not to be SUPER COMPETITIVE and not everyone is going to end up in the polygon/thunderdome/whatever - but a goal divorced of improvement is a recipe for bad training.


    I agree with the bolded part wholeheartedly. People are mistaking what I'm trying to say. I am in no way, and in fact have not said, everyone should be on super competitive levels. No, in fact, not at all what I'm trying to say.

    I'm saying, improve, be better. Don't settle for your stagnation. It's a bit of a phenomena that only in Martial arts are people willing to be stagnant. In soccer, I never thought, "I just want to run a lot and kick the ball a few times." or in ballet I never thought, "I just wanna stand on stage."

    Wait no, I lie, I did... when I was 7 years old.
  7. King Sleepless is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/18/2009 5:28pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2 View Post
    i, um, I actually hear you...but...



    In the bold part, you're making stupid excuses. Minor irony.

    Anyway, as for the non-bolded part--how well does this work? What's your success rate of turning these bullshidoka into contributing, sparring members of the martial arts community? I'd prefer separate numbers on Full-Out-Bullshidoka (Frank Dux, etc) separate from People-Who-Don't-Train-How-You-Want-Them-To (Japanese Jujutsuka).
    I also just noticed that you think I have some kind of idea about style bigotry. Other than the frank dux, ninjutsu, aikidoka assholes, I really don't care about what style you choose to do. Just don't come crying to me when you can't make it work for you.

    People train whatever style they want to, I don't give a ****. It's the pushing themselves thing I'm concerned about. My TKD school I came out of pumps out national champions like it's their main export. He pushes them all to their limits but never, ever asks them to compete. He simply puts up fliers and tells them about how competing is good to build skill and they join up themselves. I applaud and encourage them all the time even though I don't primarily train TKD anymore. But every time I go there, they love to have me there and are eager to learn something I can teach them. From a basic takedown to something like how to slip a punch.
  8. 1point2 is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/18/2009 5:31pm

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    Sirc, maybe you should look into hookers to satisfy this need of yours. They'll tell you that they admire how amazing you are.
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates
  9. King Sleepless is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/18/2009 5:36pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2 View Post
    Sirc, maybe you should look into hookers to satisfy this need of yours. They'll tell you that they admire how amazing you are.
    You asked a question, I gave you answers for your questions. If you want to fish for rep, do it somewhere else. This is a serious discussion on standards and you waiting for all of your Lebell clone Israelite buddies to come and +rep you on your oh-so-snappy posts can pack up and get the **** out of here. You aren't needed and only diminish the conversation.

    Otherwise, I'll afford you this opportunity to start over and try again.
    Last edited by King Sleepless; 5/18/2009 5:38pm at .
  10. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/18/2009 5:46pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcastro View Post
    You asked a question, I gave you answers for your questions. If you want to fish for rep, do it somewhere else. This is a serious discussion on standards and you waiting for all of your Lebell clone Israelite buddies to come and +rep you on your oh-so-snappy posts can pack up and get the **** out of here. You aren't needed and only diminish the conversation.

    Otherwise, I'll afford you this opportunity to start over and try again.

    man you take yourself way too seriously! Who the **** are you to arbitrate these standards BTW? You came up to me with that **** and I stomped on you what would that prove? that I train hard enough? who are you to judge the efficacy of an art or practicioner?
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