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  1. sil lum fighter is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/18/2009 3:14pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Sil Lum Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Shaolin Five Animal Kung Fu

    I just wanted to give a little info on Shaolin five animal style kung fu (such as striking methods) and why I think it is a good style to practice for self defense despite what some people say.

    The five main original animal styles of Shaolin are the tiger, crane, snake, leopard, & dragon. They are usually taught in this order with tiger having the easiest techniques to master and dragon style being the more advanced and hardest to learn. The main strikes used in these styles (not in any particular order) are the tiger claw, hammer fist, crane beak, chicken wrist strike, snake head strike, leopard paw strike, dragon claw, dragon tail strike, and dragon kick to name a few. There are other animal styles within Shaolin such as eagle, mantis, & monkey.

    If one is trained correctly in Shaolin (sil lum in Cantonese) then he/she can use there knowledge to defend themself. By training correctly I mean that the sifu has shown and demonstrated when and how to use these techniques during a fight. And that the sifu has not let the student resort back to a kickboxing way of fighting. Although some fighting will inevitably look like kickboxing from time to time. Using the animal strikes during sparring sessions you have to start out slow and pulling some of the strikes but as the student gets more advance he/she can go harder. Some strikes will always have to be pulled during sparring such as strikes to the eyes and throat but these type strikes can be practiced on sand bags or similiar type filled bags. These type strike may require the student to condition their hands/fingers. A good sifu will teach the student the proper way to condition their hands for these type strikes and also teach the student how to use different jows for healing.

    Here is an example of how kung fu can and will work against a grappler. From a standing position you get into it with a grappler. The grappler ties you up in a collar to elbow tie up like you see in wrestling. From this point you have one hand on or around the grapplers neck. It is very easy to strike the throat or eyes with an open hand strike using the finger tips or leopard paw to the throat from here because of how close the hand is already to the target. I guess what I'm saying is you have to evaluate each situation and see what will work for you in that particular situation.
  2. Ming Loyalist is offline
    Ming Loyalist's Avatar

    solves problems with violence

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    Posted On:
    5/18/2009 3:20pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, Hung Family Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sil lum fighter View Post
    I just wanted to give a little info on Shaolin five animal style kung fu (such as striking methods) and why I think it is a good style to practice for self defense despite what some people say.

    The five main original animal styles of Shaolin are the tiger, crane, snake, leopard, & dragon. They are usually taught in this order with tiger having the easiest techniques to master and dragon style being the more advanced and hardest to learn. The main strikes used in these styles (not in any particular order) are the tiger claw, hammer fist, crane beak, chicken wrist strike, snake head strike, leopard paw strike, dragon claw, dragon tail strike, and dragon kick to name a few. There are other animal styles within Shaolin such as eagle, mantis, & monkey.

    If one is trained correctly in Shaolin (sil lum in Cantonese) then he/she can use there knowledge to defend themself. By training correctly I mean that the sifu has shown and demonstrated when and how to use these techniques during a fight. And that the sifu has not let the student resort back to a kickboxing way of fighting. Although some fighting will inevitably look like kickboxing from time to time. Using the animal strikes during sparring sessions you have to start out slow and pulling some of the strikes but as the student gets more advance he/she can go harder. Some strikes will always have to be pulled during sparring such as strikes to the eyes and throat but these type strikes can be practiced on sand bags or similiar type filled bags. These type strike may require the student to condition their hands/fingers. A good sifu will teach the student the proper way to condition their hands for these type strikes and also teach the student how to use different jows for healing.

    Here is an example of how kung fu can and will work against a grappler. From a standing position you get into it with a grappler. The grappler ties you up in a collar to elbow tie up like you see in wrestling. From this point you have one hand on or around the grapplers neck. It is very easy to strike the throat or eyes with an open hand strike using the finger tips or leopard paw to the throat from here because of how close the hand is already to the target. I guess what I'm saying is you have to evaluate each situation and see what will work for you in that particular situation.
    i have a feeling that this thread isn't going to go very well for you, but let's take this one step at a time.

    "shaolin 5 animal kung fu" is a pretty vague description, and applies to hundreds if not thousands of southern chinese kung fu systems. care to give us some more specific info on what you are talking about?

    also, how long have you been studying in your current system? do you consider yourself an authority in it?

    i don't want to jump to conclusions about you, but you are setting off a lot of warning flags.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj
  3. 1point2 is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/18/2009 3:21pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 剛 and 柔

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wow, I've love to see a BJJ guy try his "grappling" against THAT!
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates
  4. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/18/2009 3:41pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

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    Hmmmm
    Here is an example of how kung fu can and will work against a grappler. From a standing position you get into it with a grappler. The grappler ties you up in a collar to elbow tie up like you see in wrestling. From this point you have one hand on or around the grapplers neck. It is very easy to strike the throat or eyes with an open hand strike using the finger tips or leopard paw to the throat from here because of how close the hand is already to the target. I guess what I'm saying is you have to evaluate each situation and see what will work for you in that particular situation.
    Please find a willing grappler and try this theory out. Also, grappling is about control.My friends, that were wrestlers, say "these dirty tactics" are taught and defended against.

    So really, the "I will eye poke, gouge, rake, thumb" in the face area is old. I'm not saying it can't work but, it isn't as easy as all CMAers tend to claim.
  5. sil lum fighter is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/18/2009 3:44pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Sil Lum Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist View Post
    i have a feeling that this thread isn't going to go very well for you, but let's take this one step at a time.

    "shaolin 5 animal kung fu" is a pretty vague description, and applies to hundreds if not thousands of southern chinese kung fu systems. care to give us some more specific info on what you are talking about?

    also, how long have you been studying in your current system? do you consider yourself an authority in it?

    i don't want to jump to conclusions about you, but you are setting off a lot of warning flags.
    Sure. I have been studying Sil Lum Kung Fu since 1984 under Master John Dufresne (9th level black sash). He studied under Great Grandmaster "John" Wing Lok Ng here in Lexington Kentucky at Four Season United Kung Fu Academy. Ng learned his kung fu from his grandfather whose name I do not know back in mainland China. When I say shaolin 5 animals I am talking about the styles of tiger, crane, snake, leopard, and dragon. And yes I realize that this thread and me will come under a lot of fire from the mma guys. I kinda expected it. But my question to you and to any other person who has doubts about kung fu working is this.......Why do you think that the techniques that work when perpendicular (standing up) wouldn't work when horizontal (on the ground)???
  6. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/18/2009 3:48pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sil lum fighter View Post
    But my question to you and to any other person who has doubts about kung fu working is this.......
    Stop right there. These two points don't belong together. Many people, thanks to Sanda, Sanshou, and Lei Tai, have changed their mind about kung fu.
    Striking Kung fu.



    Why do you think that the techniques that work when perpendicular (standing up) wouldn't work when horizontal (on the ground)???
    A complicated science called physics.
  7. Uncle Skippy is offline

    See my tongue. SEE IT!

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    Posted On:
    5/18/2009 3:53pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
      Style: BJJ, MT, TKD

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sil lum fighter View Post
    Why do you think that the techniques that work when perpendicular (standing up) wouldn't work when horizontal (on the ground)???
    Will eye gouges, groin strikes, and other 'vital area' strikes do something? Sure.

    Wrestlers/BJJ/"ground fighters" train in controlling space and movement. When you 'lock up' with a grappler/wrestler and you don't have as much experience in such a situation, you will be at a disadvantage right off.

    So you start using 'vital area' strikes to try to even the playing field, even try to get the advantage.

    What is to keep the wrestler/grappler from doing the same though? This is where this argument, which has been presented dozens and dozens of times on here, falls apart.

    No wrestler/grappler is going to just sit there and try to hug you to death when you are trying to strike their eyes. They'll retaliate.

    Now, the wrestler/grappler has the advantage because they've trained to fight in the situation you're in (locked up standing or on the ground) and they are throwing strikes as well.

    I think that you think they have a 1-track mind (grab, tug, hug, pry, etc...). They aren't going to just sit there and hold on while you go for their eyes, throat, etc. They will move, they will RESTRAIN, they will choke, and they will be going for your eyes, throat, etc.
  8. Ming Loyalist is offline
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    solves problems with violence

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    Posted On:
    5/18/2009 3:59pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, Hung Family Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sil lum fighter View Post
    Sure. I have been studying Sil Lum Kung Fu since 1984 under Master John Dufresne (9th level black sash). He studied under Great Grandmaster "John" Wing Lok Ng here in Lexington Kentucky at Four Season United Kung Fu Academy. Ng learned his kung fu from his grandfather whose name I do not know back in mainland China. When I say shaolin 5 animals I am talking about the styles of tiger, crane, snake, leopard, and dragon.
    ok, but what's the style called? i train in a shaolin 5 animal style, and have lineage back through wong fei hung, but the important part is that my style is hung ga or as i like to call it, hung fist chinese boxing. it's not tiger style or dragon style, etc. it's hung ga. your style has a name, and you should know it, especially if you want to post about it online.

    And yes I realize that this thread and me will come under a lot of fire from the mma guys. I kinda expected it. But my question to you and to any other person who has doubts about kung fu working is this.......Why do you think that the techniques that work when perpendicular (standing up) wouldn't work when horizontal (on the ground)???
    but you didn't expect to be attacked by kung fu guys. that was your mistake.

    the reason we don't think the techniques would work? we tried them. against competent grapplers. have you?
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj
  9. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    5/18/2009 4:50pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sil lum fighter View Post
    But my question to you and to any other person who has doubts about kung fu working is this.......Why do you think that the techniques that work when perpendicular (standing up) wouldn't work when horizontal (on the ground)???
    I think you meant vertical vs horizontal. Anyway, let's look at it from another perspective: a white belt in BJJ, who only grapples from the knees to start, tells you that if his art works on the ground, it also works standing up. What would you think?
  10. nomamao is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/18/2009 11:00pm


     Style: Hung Ga Kung Fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sil lum fighter View Post
    Here is an example of how kung fu can and will work against a grappler. From a standing position you get into it with a grappler. The grappler ties you up in a collar to elbow tie up like you see in wrestling. From this point you have one hand on or around the grapplers neck. It is very easy to strike the throat or eyes with an open hand strike using the finger tips or leopard paw to the throat from here because of how close the hand is already to the target. I guess what I'm saying is you have to evaluate each situation and see what will work for you in that particular situation.



    I'm not sure if you meant this above or this below.



    But, please let me know where the death blow would be dealt and how.
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