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  1. Sophist is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/16/2009 12:56pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    blugularis, the position you're looking for is "kata gatame", and yes, it's very much standard judo. Oh, and I've never come across any judo player or authority ever that used "sangaku jime" for an arm triangle choke, only ever for the choke with the legs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan
    So the fact that you got it wrong embarrassed you, but that whole post where you cut-and-paste google-fu a lecture to staffer on a MA forum about sankaku jime doesn't even feel a little ironic to you?
    Given the staff member in question doesn't seem to have a fucking clue what a sangaku-jime actually is, if he's applying the term to an arm triangle from guard, I think most of the irony's in him posturing about his eminent position. I don't usually have a problem with you, Tom, but right here on this thread you're shooting your mouth off about judo grappling in a way that makes it plain that your knowledge of it is distinctly limited. That would make you look a little bit silly by itself, but trying to throw around "staff member" weight as well leads us to the place where facepalms come from.
  2. blugularis is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2009 1:08pm


     Style: JuShinDo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    gene LaBell

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan View Post
    So you're saying he learned bad judo from Gene Lebell?
    now, that would be a great person, for your "bad-ass of the month!" (Gene LaBell, not BL), Actually, I am saying that they learned a few things, from each other, my bet, is that Gene taught BL, more than the other way around, but Gene says that he did stunts for BL, and that they visited each other's dojos, and trained some, but then, this information is available to anyone who is interested in finding out, just google it!:icon_salu
    Last edited by blugularis; 7/16/2009 1:10pm at . Reason: I want to
  3. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2009 2:20pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by blugularis View Post
    now, that would be a great person, for your "bad-ass of the month!" (Gene LaBell, not BL), Actually, I am saying that they learned a few things, from each other, my bet, is that Gene taught BL, more than the other way around, but Gene says that he did stunts for BL, and that they visited each other's dojos, and trained some, but then, this information is available to anyone who is interested in finding out, just google it!:icon_salu
    Gene Lebell may have tried to teach Bruce Lee judo, but it is obvious by the results he didn't learn anything from Gene.
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  4. blugularis is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2009 6:45pm


     Style: JuShinDo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    learning

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan View Post
    Gene Lebell may have tried to teach Bruce Lee judo, but it is obvious by the results he didn't learn anything from Gene.
    :sign12:Actually, he did (learn something), he learned to respect Judoka...
    too bad, you can't learn the same (respect)? BL was accomplished at what he did the best, and he did it well, particularly given the era. BUT, maybe as David Carradine told Chuck Norris, "you are about as good an actor, as I am a martial artist." Chuck Norris, reports that he took it as a compliment. LOL!

    Bruce Lee was a good action star, he did what he set out to do, his ultimate aim :icon_thum:
    "I, Bruce Lee, will be the first highest paid Oriental super star in the United States. In return I will give the most exciting performances and render the best of quality in the capacity of an actor. Starting 1970 I will achieve world fame and from then onward till the end of 1980 I will have in my possession $10,000,000. I will live the way I please and achieve inner harmony and happiness.
    - Bruce Lee
    Jan. 1969
    Last edited by blugularis; 7/16/2009 6:58pm at . Reason: edit/clarity/neatness
  5. blugularis is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2009 6:55pm


     Style: JuShinDo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    kata gatame

    yuppers, that is what they called it, I never considered it, "from the guard," as I learned it from the top/side position, kesa gatame, particularly if you could sucker the ground guy into throwing a right punch up at your face, or trying to push you, it was "my favorite!" I also learned it switching the legs, and sprawling out with them, basically laying face down on the ground.

    And tell your dude, Mr. staff member Tom, thanks for the journey into the past (flashbacks, man, cool), googled old Ron DeMeersman, and sure as s't, his name pops up, he even wrote some journal articles, including one utilizing judo!? Ain't google f'n amazing!?:virus:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sophist View Post
    blugularis, the position you're looking for is "kata gatame", and yes, it's very much standard judo. Oh, and I've never come across any judo player or authority ever that used "sangaku jime" for an arm triangle choke, only ever for the choke with the legs.


    Given the staff member in question doesn't seem to have a fucking clue what a sangaku-jime actually is, if he's applying the term to an arm triangle from guard, I think most of the irony's in him posturing about his eminent position. I don't usually have a problem with you, Tom, but right here on this thread you're shooting your mouth off about judo grappling in a way that makes it plain that your knowledge of it is distinctly limited. That would make you look a little bit silly by itself, but trying to throw around "staff member" weight as well leads us to the place where facepalms come from.
  6. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/17/2009 12:48am

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sophist View Post
    Given the staff member in question doesn't seem to have a fucking clue what a sangaku-jime actually is, if he's applying the term to an arm triangle from guard, I think most of the irony's in him posturing about his eminent position. I don't usually have a problem with you, Tom, but right here on this thread you're shooting your mouth off about judo grappling in a way that makes it plain that your knowledge of it is distinctly limited. That would make you look a little bit silly by itself, but trying to throw around "staff member" weight as well leads us to the place where facepalms come from.
    I freely admit my knowledge of judo is both limited and 35 years rusty. I freely admit I did not remember any judo term for a triangle choke before I wanted to insert the term into the post. But the "staffer" reference was not to throw any weight around to imply I knew judo, but to say that staffers are pretty darn good google-fu cut-and-pasters, too. (That wasn't clear, oh well.)

    Of course, if blugaris knew judo well - after all he did take the time to point out he learned from Ronald DeDonald and Doctor Chen, medicine man, who both appear to be prominent judoka - wouldn't he have corrected me? Naah, he's too busy riding Bruce Lee's nuts in a thread about Jigoro Kano to do that.

    Edit:

    Oh yeah, one more thing about the arm triangle:
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  7. TheLordHumungus is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/17/2009 1:49am


     Style: Wrestling, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan View Post
    I freely admit my knowledge of judo is both limited and 35 years rusty. I freely admit I did not remember any judo term for a triangle choke before I wanted to insert the term into the post. But the "staffer" reference was not to throw any weight around to imply I knew judo, but to say that staffers are pretty darn good google-fu cut-and-pasters, too. (That wasn't clear, oh well.)

    Of course, if blugaris knew judo well - after all he did take the time to point out he learned from Ronald DeDonald and Doctor Chen, medicine man, who both appear to be prominent judoka - wouldn't he have corrected me? Naah, he's too busy riding Bruce Lee's nuts in a thread about Jigoro Kano to do that.

    Edit:

    Oh yeah, one more thing about the arm triangle:

    Seriously, this is a space for riding Kano's nuts. Take Bruce elsewhere.
  8. spikeheart is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/17/2009 2:04am

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    such a badass should be never forgotten
  9. Sophist is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/17/2009 5:20am


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan View Post
    I freely admit my knowledge of judo is both limited and 35 years rusty. I freely admit I did not remember any judo term for a triangle choke before I wanted to insert the term into the post. But the "staffer" reference was not to throw any weight around to imply I knew judo, but to say that staffers are pretty darn good google-fu cut-and-pasters, too. (That wasn't clear, oh well.)
    No worries, I'm more than willing to believe staff members have fine google-fu.

    Much respect for the mea culpa. The site (and world generally) would be a better place if more folk had the cojones to just admit it when they slipped up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan
    Of course, if blugaris knew judo well - after all he did take the time to point out he learned from Ronald DeDonald and Doctor Chen, medicine man, who both appear to be prominent judoka - wouldn't he have corrected me? Naah, he's too busy riding Bruce Lee's nuts in a thread about Jigoro Kano to do that.
    He's obviously trained judo, but his articulacy could use some work...

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLordHumungus
    Seriously, this is a space for riding Kano's nuts. Take Bruce elsewhere.
    And that's something we all ought to be able to agree on.
  10. blugularis is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/17/2009 10:02am


     Style: JuShinDo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    correct you?

    nope, not interested in correcting you, from what I have seen of you, you both have a very hard time, admitting when you are wrong, and it would be a very difficult, if impossible job, to correct you, neither the time, nor the desire. Dr. Chen, is not famous, in the least, just a very good man, and a good judoka, learned it in Taiwan, under the Japanese occupation and rule, Judo was part of the school program, as was mandatory Japanese lessons, and he just continued on. His "Dr." is a Ph.D., in engeneering or chemistry, I can't recall which. Ron, as it appears from a search on the web, "Dr. DeMeersman," was a dutch player, and rather good, he could choke you (me) out, before you could tap out. I had one other teacher, Ray, my third Judo teacher, origionally took from Honda (before my time), and he was the region champ, Idaho and Utah, but that Ron was phenomonal, according to him. Ray Neilson, and Dr. Chen are both Sandan (or forth by now), and both neither famous, but very good folk, and very good teachers, Ray was the better Judoka, came from the High School wrestling background, and probably bigger/stronger than Chen, but Chen was the more technical of the two, focusing on "move your elbow up a little, turn into it more..." Being a very small and rather old (he is in his 70s and stilll "playing," I guess you would have to be more technical, if your size is different. All this to your very impertinent comment about learning from a book.

    If you are "35 years rusty?" then you must be older than I thought, probably about the same age as I am? I really had the feeling, talking with you, that you were about young 20s, due to your attitude and, well, to put it simply, assinity. You neither talk, nor act, like anyone, with anything above a first degree black belt in anything, nor anything like anyone with "thirty!?" plus years in martial arts.

    You more reminded me of one of the young students in my classes, fresh out of high school, the kind that sits in the back of the room, and trys to text on their cell phone, and/or talk to the person next to them, and then wonders why they flunk my class.:spanky:

    I am not here to ride anyone's nuts (that sounds gay), I am here to learn more about martial arts. Bruce Lee was who he was, and he was an exemplary athelete, true a "movie" fighter, but he trained, hard. Despite being cocky, he admired other martial artists, that were also accomplished. He "tipped his hat," to Judoka. From what I have heard, he gave a gold sword to Mas Oyama, as a token of admiration and respect.

    I have seen more than one "self-appointed black belt," and some schools that literally cracked me up with their stupidity, including techniques that wouldn't work on anyone. And a lot of stuff that is clearly not effective.

    I have also learned and trained from some very good instructors, Wado, TKD, Kyokushin, Musokai, Ashihara, Enshin, WKA, Aikido, and of course, my origional and favorite, Judo. If I had really wanted to "throw a name around," I would start with Joko Ninomiya, but that is not my purpose here. Re-reading the post below, I am thinking it was more Mr. Tom Kagan, that is riding BL's nuts, all I ever did was say that even BL admired judoka, and used a judo move, (okay, scripted, even) in one of his movies, despite the lack of flashy flying kicking jumping bean stuff that really thrilled the crowds. And since making a lot of money, and being famous, was his "ultimate aim?" That says a lot for, and of, his attitude towards judo.

    How this turned into a personal attack, on both myself, and BL, a man who is dead, chosen by Mr. Tom Kagan, I will never know? I could go into an analysis of his character, based on his use of his "staffer status," and his need to show that he knew something about judo that he didn't, I could (and maybe have) made some guesses (maybe some of them wrong) but I am not getting paid to do that, and w/o a full assessment, that is unethical!

    Personally, I was at the point of almost wishing that I could t/o Mr. Tom Kagan off to the point, that he might actually boot me off this little blog! :XXpuke:

    And clearly, somewhere on the top of this page, it states something about the purpose of bullshido, and we (me and Tom) have both clearly deviated a long ways away from that purpose. That of exposing fraudulent MA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan View Post
    I freely admit my knowledge of judo is both limited and 35 years rusty. I freely admit I did not remember any judo term for a triangle choke before I wanted to insert the term into the post. But the "staffer" reference was not to throw any weight around to imply I knew judo, but to say that staffers are pretty darn good google-fu cut-and-pasters, too. (That wasn't clear, oh well.)

    Of course, if blugaris knew judo well - after all he did take the time to point out he learned from Ronald DeDonald and Doctor Chen, medicine man, who both appear to be prominent judoka - wouldn't he have corrected me? Naah, he's too busy riding Bruce Lee's nuts in a thread about Jigoro Kano to do that.

    Edit:

    Oh yeah, one more thing about the arm triangle:
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