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  1. Yojimbo1717 is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/12/2009 12:10am


     Style: Grappling & Lifting

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by cyrijl View Post
    Well it is easy to have exciting matches with steroids, size mismatches and the like. The fact that we have yet to see someone come in from pride and do something amzing says something about ufc fighters...that said, I do think it is to a large extent a popularity contest (i.e. Rob Emerson during the TUF season and Kendal Grove after winning TUF).
    PRIDE fighters not whooping ass in UFC, srsly?

    ...Anderson Silva?

    ...Rampage Jackson?
  2. JohnnyCache is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/12/2009 12:26am

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     Style: FMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja View Post
    Pride's fights always were so much more exciting to me. Kicking to the head on the ground stops all that lie on your back bullshit (UFC ahem). The cage might make for a more realistic, and continuous fight...but it gets fucking boring all too often.

    The UFC is oversold, as far and away the best fighting action...and it's just not true. Most of my favorite all time fights were in other promotions. That and the UFC's continued intellectual dishonesty about Fedor (on who's nuts I reside) makes them look kinda high school with it.

    People keep saying this **** about fedor

    the fact is, fedor isn't worth what he wants.

    There, I said it. Statistically, financially, paying top rate for big draws from other promotions has worked once for white and co - with a guy from the WWE.

    They've got a thin HW division for him to fight, and it's even thinner outside the UFC. Fedor's recent career has been tepid. Why is he worth all this money? Why is it a good investment for Dana to invite free agent style policy exemptions into his leauge for one guy? It's not cutting into his numbers. It's not cutting into his gates. If the "best fighter of ______" wants to set ouside the tent and let other people have the legacy, the titles, and the money, how much should Dana work to get him into the tent?

    Personally, I think a great compromise over one of their major sticking points would be to just let him to sambo - here, and on camera.
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  3. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/12/2009 7:23am

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     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is long, but for Fedor's (and good mma's) nuts, it's worth it.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyCache View Post
    the fact is, fedor isn't worth what he wants.
    Many fans value seeing his fights over almost any other. I'm one, and I'm not alone (there's a song in there somewhere, I think)

    They've got a thin HW division for him to fight, and it's even thinner outside the UFC.
    right, the UFC is thin in the heavyweights. They bought up Pride, and didn't retain many fighters, who's fault is it?? or at least, who's the cause? Pride was built on heavyweights, so they were there...we all know this.
    Fedor's recent career has been tepid.
    ??? Tim Sylvia went five rounds w/ Randy, and lasted 35 seconds w/ fedor. AA has been doing well...and got knocked clean out, in the first round. I don't think busting up two former hw champs is that tepid. If you look at how quickly he destroys these fighters, you'll see he's actually on fire.

    It's not cutting into his numbers. It's not cutting into his gates. If the "best fighter of __(our time)____" wants to set ouside the tent and let other people have the legacy, the titles, and the money, how much should Dana work to get him into the tent?
    as a point of pride, he should want the best in the UFC's ranks. If Fodor were inside the UFC, destroying champ after champ, instead of outside, destroying champ after champ, you can bet DANA wouldn't shut up about how he's the best. It's intellectually vacant to fault Fedor for the thin heavyweight ranks in mma...and to reason that he shouldn't be in the biggest promotion under any but the most stringent terms, at the whim of Zuffa.


    He's not sulking outside the tent...he refuses to sign over his likeness rights, to guarantee however many fights a year (boxers fight when it's best for them, why not mma?), and to give up his place in Russian sambo competition (at which he's a national hero, and expected to compete by his entire country).

    Personally, I think a great compromise over one of their major sticking points would be to just let him to sambo - here, and on camera.
    The only way they're moving forward at this point, is in a cross promotion. Fedor's mgt. has already stated that flat out. They've already seen how the UFC treats it's fighters...and it's only getting more stringent.

    Why would he want to subvert his own brand, and weaken his proffessional position, just to say he's in the UFC? I do believe Tim Silvia had teh correct when he said things would trend toward free agency. Being in the UFC these days is starting to look a lot like being on the American Idol tour. It's only good if you're not stuck in it, witnessing yourself getting sucked dry, for the corporate overlords. It's not as though the fighters in-house are in a position to complain.

    Fedor is clearly the best hw mma fighter in the world. Coaches, commentators, historians, fans, and fighters in droves have stated this....this is a widely held opinion. It's an embarrassment for the ufc, for them not to be able to sign him. Their reasoning?....they screw everyone equally, so they don't have to bow. Asking Fedor to forgo the sambo tournies, is like a promoter offering the chance for a band to tour some big venues, but only if they miss that gig at the whitehouse. Expecting him to have no national pride, and to insult his nation is absurd.
  4. BaronVonDingDong is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/12/2009 7:52am


     Style: Jerry-Bashing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hesperus View Post
    I dunno, I guess I'm just partial to not letting fighters with hepatitis fight.
    Now that's excitement.
  5. cyrijl is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/12/2009 8:05am

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     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I agree with JC. Fedor IS NOT WORTH THE MONEY. This is not the NFL, Fedor is not a household name. I odn't watch football but I could name about 12 players, same with baseball and basketball. You can't say the same for Fedor. Just because we know who is he doesn't mean he'll be a big enough draw to lay out the money. Not that the UFC couldn't afford it, it just would not be a good enough ROI. Add to this Fedor's non-fighting attributes (little english, russian) and he is just not as marketable.
    There is no cheating, there is only jiu-jitsu.
  6. cufaol is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/12/2009 8:38am


     Style: Boxing/Judo/BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by cyrijl View Post
    I agree with JC. Fedor IS NOT WORTH THE MONEY. Just because we know who is he doesn't mean he'll be a big enough draw to lay out the money.
    One question: who does Fedor have to beat in order to prove he's big enough to fight in the UFC? How can someone keep on arguing he isn't good enough, knowing who he's beaten already?
  7. Hiro Protagonist is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/12/2009 8:38am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The point is, when do you remember to have watched a draw match in the UFC and felt excited about it?

    In Pride, Dream, Sengoku, and so on, even draw matches are cool to watch!
  8. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/12/2009 8:43am

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     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by cyrijl View Post
    I agree with JC. Fedor IS NOT WORTH THE MONEY. This is not the NFL, Fedor is not a household name.
    Most fighters aren't household names, and btw no one gives much of a **** about the NFL internationally (sorta) (It's the other football they like mate). Mma is an international sport. Pride was filling arenas overseas before the UFC was this gigantic.
    He was the reigning pride hw champ. To hear people talk about him, as though he's only a 'contender' or something, or somehow less valid, because he wasn't fighting in the US, is wild. Zuffa bought the promotion...but didn't manage to retain their biggest star. They suck for that, not the fighter who's been doing exactly what fans want (jack people up) the whole time.

    Team sports aren't that structurally similar to pro fighting, and the individual "is" the brand, not the team/franchise/org. I'm less concerned for Zuffa's billions, than to see the best fights. Money doesn't trump everything, for everybody.
  9. cyrijl is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/12/2009 9:16am

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     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, that's all nice and good. If the UFC thought Fedor was worth the money they would have paid it. The value of something is only what someone else is willing to pay for it. If I say the pants I have on are worth a million dollars but no one wants to pay a million dollars for my pants...then they are ismply not worth a million dollars. This has nothing to do with Fedor's ability to maul the entire HW division of the UFC. It is economics.
    There is no cheating, there is only jiu-jitsu.
  10. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/12/2009 10:25am

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     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by cyrijl View Post
    This has nothing to do with Fedor's ability to maul the entire HW division of the UFC. It is economics.
    Fans lose. In time the UFC may also. It also speaks to the quality of their product. They want to be a universe unto themselves...except, they don't have a corner on the talent market....and to hear them rhetorically minimize anything that isn't the UFC, is so very lame. It's like the biggest record label, saying other bands ain't **** because they're not with their company.

    It may be shrewd business, but that doesn't make it good for fans, or the sport. MCDojos would be an example of good (or more accurately "effective") business, bad results and repercussions.

    Every day the UFC gets closer to the WWE. Already they're forcing weight class shifts, and soon...GSP will have to marry BJ's cousin, and Dana will become Vince McMahon. The TUFF dramas always???/ what the hell are they turning mma into????
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