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  1. #31
    theotherserge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bitchslapper View Post
    For how long do you usually teach a noob this positional rolling without subs? Once they "graduate" to rolling with subs do they ever do it again (for their own benefit, not counting rolling with a fresh noob)?
    just to keep the conversation going...

    really, its subjective. For me, the hungrier the n00b is for subs and victory, the less I'm interested in teaching him subs. I hate seeing people get hurt because they don't know what they're doing or have something to prove.

    Beyond attitude adjustment, just getting to where you are comfortable and aware of whats going on. In the striking example* it would be like teaching a good jab+cross combo but no footwork, no head movement, no weave etc etc.

    I've always enforced a 20-40 minute Ukemi/breakfall warmup: I've seen how much strength development, confidence/feeling of safety, injury prevention et al comes along with as a sidebar to learning to move well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whiteshark
    Surprisingly it is the opposite movement that appeals to me so much. I don't know if it is just there from a million reps of returning my power leg to my stance or what but throws like harai goshi, uchi mata and osoto gari were really natural for me to pick up. To me it is the twist of the hips in relation to my shoulders that feels so "normal".
    I think its interesting to note that I have one student who can throw a roundhouse kick that I can barely see coming and its hard as hell. He learned Uchi&all in about 5 minutes. The other is convinced he's a straight ahead fighter and its just hopeless, after a year I've finally decided to just teach him pick-ups and trips. He also cannot kick for shite. "You couldn't kick a beer can off the porch of your trailer!"

    I like to think of the whole movement as a pendulum...

    *ha! I haz teh pun!
    Many things we do naturally become difficult only when we try to make them intellectual subjects. It is possible to know so much about a subject that you become totally ignorant.
    -Mentat Text Two (dicto)

  2. #32
    sambosteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bitchslapper View Post
    For how long do you usually teach a noob this positional rolling without subs? Once they "graduate" to rolling with subs do they ever do it again (for their own benefit, not counting rolling with a fresh noob)?
    Well, we never stop ositional and movement drilling at our club...everyone does it from noob to advanced.

    As a general rule in our club, we have 3 month bracket system with our classes. Under three months training we have ceratin classes available Fundamentals, some subs, striking), after three months more classes are available to the student, after another 3 months some more, and after one year, more. We work our way up from fundamentals level classes, to classes that are throwing intensive after three months, and classes which combine ranges (striking, throwing, grappling) after another another three months, and our "advanced class" after one year. But, all level classes involve movement and positional drilling...so we never stop that. When I allow noobs to free roll with subs is decided individually...depends on many factors like self control, ability to listen to coaching, etc.

  3. #33

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    I used to do "no sub rolling" when I first started BJJ. I was with people who were also knew, and our instructor had us attempting to pass guard, pass half-guard, attain mount etc. We would start in certain positions, and then try to escape them. Once the guard was passed (or whatever) we would re-start. Subs were allowed, but usually only useful for the defending player.

    I liked these drills quite a bit. If you roll starting from half-guard, you get pretty decent at dealing with half-guard (or whichever position we are using for that day). I wish we did some of that at my current gym, instead of just pure rolling all the time.

  4. #34
    WhiteShark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [Tycho?] View Post
    I liked these drills quite a bit. If you roll starting from half-guard, you get pretty decent at dealing with half-guard (or whichever position we are using for that day). I wish we did some of that at my current gym, instead of just pure rolling all the time.
    Most training partners of mine have been willing to work on this during "pure rolling" Just ask to start in that position instead of from your knees.

  5. #35

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    sambosteve:

    A delayed thank you for the informative response.

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by asfo View Post
    sambosteve:

    A delayed thank you for the informative response.

    Still waiting for a background fromya... Paint me Interested.

  7. #37
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  8. #38
    TEA's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In the FWIW category, Phil Cardella (my jiu jitsu instructor) emphasizes teaching positions, transitions and defenses against subs before he starts teaching noobs a lot of subs. Of course, the noobs have to learn a few basic subs in order to learn how to defend against them, but the emphasis at first is on just getting comfortable with rolling with someone.

    White Shark, I think I get what your saying about grappling v.s. striking in terms of flow and movement, but I disagree with you a bit. Maybe it's been such a long time since you were a noob that you can't remember how awkward it was to try and move with someone in some sort of coordinated manner. Think about distance and timing. That is all about flow. Noobs have to learn this from the ground up and it is also the first thing that one loses when one isn't training with a partner on a regular basis. This is why I like to start noobs out with no contact sparring (yeah, I know, "no contact sparring is for pussies"). I like to get noobs to focus on just moving with an opponent rather than focusing on trying to land hits, working on timing and distance without the stress of worrying about getting hit and or trying to smash the other guy. Once they develop timing and distance, then they can start to worry about landing shots.
    Mushi mo atsui hodo
    Mushiatsui

    Originally Posted by chuey
    ...Well **** if that isn't the most anti-Mr. Miyagi **** I have heard in ages.

    Two wrongs don't make a right, but
    Three rights make a left.

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