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  1. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    5/13/2009 10:45am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ha! (breakthrough ha not lol ha) That "throwing" comment just made me realize why I like certain throws so much! I learned MT first and am totally addicted to leg/hip sweep style throws everything else feels like a waste of energy to me. Wow, I never thought about it being related to hip turn over in MT.
  2. theotherserge is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/13/2009 1:23pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: sambo/crossfit

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShark View Post
    Ha! (breakthrough ha not lol ha) That "throwing" comment just made me realize why I like certain throws so much! I learned MT first and am totally addicted to leg/hip sweep style throws everything else feels like a waste of energy to me. Wow, I never thought about it being related to hip turn over in MT.
    watch this vid, Katanishi is very high quality. Once he starts working the Uchikomi/fit-in, notice how he's going toe-heel on his trailing foot. Its the same goddamn hip-step that you start a roundhouse kick with! Just a lower angle since he's sending his leg along the floor, not up above his hip.

    The hip opening & engagement is the same, from how I see it. Try a roundhouse while retreating and see if it doesn't translate into then trying this takedown:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flqASYiS1oY
    Many things we do naturally become difficult only when we try to make them intellectual subjects. It is possible to know so much about a subject that you become totally ignorant.
    -Mentat Text Two (dicto)
  3. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    5/13/2009 2:24pm

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     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Surprisingly it is the opposite movement that appeals to me so much. I don't know if it is just there from a million reps of returning my power leg to my stance or what but throws like harai goshi, uchi mata and osoto gari were really natural for me to pick up. To me it is the twist of the hips in relation to my shoulders that feels so "normal".
  4. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Exasperated.

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    Posted On:
    5/13/2009 6:13pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cassius View Post
    I don't train in SAMBO, but in my experience, teaching along similar lines to what Steve is a proponent of is the best way to teach. For me it is more of a question of self-preservation, since I often have to break Army folk of their habit of going Full Retard when we roll, but I think it still applies to this discussion.

    Actually, it's refreshing to see so many grappling schools nowadays that "get it."
    Agreed. People want to collect subs before they know how to move. When I work with new people I don't even show them subs, I show them movement and how to get out of dodge.

    When I first started, one of our purple belts said to not even try a submission for 6 months. While that was clear hyperbole, I really wish I had taken it more to heart.
  5. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    5/13/2009 6:51pm

    supporting member
     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is pretty similar to the way Saulo Ribeiro does it. He has all noobs learning "survival". From every position, how to survive an not get caught. It is a little different but similar in that he doesn't start you off doing arm bar drills. Hip movement, keeping arms in, shrimping, bridging, creating space. That type of stuff.
  6. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Exasperated.

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    Posted On:
    5/13/2009 8:11pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Awhile back Aesopian talked about how interesting it would be to start someone off with "exotic" submissions taught as core submissions.

    As interesting, and potentially more efficacious would be to start people out, day one, with ball drills.
  7. theotherserge is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/13/2009 8:41pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: sambo/crossfit

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa View Post
    Awhile back Aesopian talked about how interesting it would be to start someone off with "exotic" submissions taught as core submissions.

    As interesting, and potentially more efficacious would be to start people out, day one, with ball drills.
    I went to a Rigan Machado seminar, it was on short notice so not many people showed up, which made it even better.

    It was the best BJJ training I'd ever had! The first half was movement drills and the second half was adapting those drills to subs/positions. He made a point about how some BJJ instructors consider these advanced moves. He smiled as he said it.

    Awesome stuff.
    Many things we do naturally become difficult only when we try to make them intellectual subjects. It is possible to know so much about a subject that you become totally ignorant.
    -Mentat Text Two (dicto)
  8. sambosteve is offline
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    Stillness is death

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    Posted On:
    5/14/2009 1:59am

    Business Class Supporting Member
     NY Combat Sambo Style: combat sambo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa View Post
    Awhile back Aesopian talked about how interesting it would be to start someone off with "exotic" submissions taught as core submissions.
    Funny thing is that if you look at sambo and leg locks for example, these are taught as core subs...but, not core subs in other systems like BJJ. To us they are not "exotic", but to many others they seem so. Inasmuch, when sparring with guys for whom they are not core, the difference in training becomes very clear...the fear factor when a leg lock is attempted of inexperience with the variables, moves, sensations, proper defenses, etc. Just food for thought.

    An interesting example...

    In my student Tyga's most recent tourny, he won two of his 4 matches by leg lock (the other tow by arm locks). Funny thing is that in class, he rarely scores leg locks against us or the other students, but we defend them all the time so it is tough for him. He therefore thought he was no good at leg locks and was not going to try any at the event. Our other student Chuck, who was working his corner, said...go for it, you will see the difference when you go against folks who don't know them like us. The rest is history. It opened Tyga's eyes as to how core subs for some can be "exotic" for others.
  9. Lindz is online now

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    Posted On:
    5/14/2009 2:42am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    For how long do you usually teach a noob this positional rolling without subs? Once they "graduate" to rolling with subs do they ever do it again (for their own benefit, not counting rolling with a fresh noob)?
  10. selfcritical is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/14/2009 9:51am


     Style: Pekiti, ARMA, other stuff

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It has the added benefit because such position rolling and movement drills give you an instant and safe kids curriculum. If you were so inclined.
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