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  1. Spug is offline

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    Aug 2007
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    9

    Posted On:
    8/13/2009 3:17pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Jujutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by zarquoniq View Post
    Not true. Ji Han Jae is very much alive, and I'm sure he knows a lot. The problem is he has condensed his dialogue of the early years of Hapkido to "I learned 'yawara' from Choi, Samrang do from Taoist Lee, and meditation from Grandma."
    Yes, he does know a lot, but he doesn't know with certainty who taught Choi in Japan nor what Choi learned. It's likely that Choi told him that he (Choi) learned Daito ryu, but that would just mean that Ji is one more person Choi told that.

    I've seen accounts that Jang In Mok acknowledged that he knew Choi in Japan and that Choi learned Daito ryu, but afaik those accounts have not been substantiated.
  2. sahng is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    9/16/2009 5:19pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: jung sim do, tkd, tsd

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i read through this pretty quickly but i'm sure i didn't see anything about Ji Han Jae. He is considered the technical founder of hapkido. So I guess it really depends on the lineage. There's Ji's hapkido and there's Choi's. Not that they were rivals, Ji was like a student and co-founder with Choi. He then amended what he learned and founded Sin Moo Hapkido. Many people consider him founder of Hapkido and Sin Moo Hapkido.

    p.s. in speaking with Dr. He-Young Kimm about the purpose and content of Hapkido Bible he told me it's really all about the lineage, most schools descend from Ji Han Jae. also that kuk sool won and hapkido are virtually the same.
  3. Spug is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/29/2009 5:50pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Jujutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's all too easy to get bogged down in semantics when discussing Choi, Ji and the roots of hapkido.

    Quote Originally Posted by sahng View Post
    ...Ji Han Jae... is considered the technical founder of hapkido.
    By many. However, that begs the question: what exactly is "hapkido"?

    Quote Originally Posted by sahng View Post
    There's Ji's hapkido and there's Choi's. Not that they were rivals, Ji was like a student and co-founder with Choi. He then amended what he learned and founded Sin Moo Hapkido. Many people consider him founder of Hapkido and Sin Moo Hapkido.
    The yawara that Choi taught Ji (which, btw, may well differ from the yawara he taught other direct students) is a subset of Sin Moo hapkido. Ji and a fellow student of Choi, Kim Mu Hong (김무홍, according to wikipedia - take it for what it's worth) added the kicking repertoire and philosophy/meditiation components to the yawara that Choi taught Ji to create what has evolved into Sin Mu hapkido.

    Ji was decidedly not a cofounder of the art that Choi taught. According to a document that I got from Ji himself at one of his seminars several years ago, he trained regularly under Choi only for about three years, from the time he was about 13 until the time he was about 16 (1949-1952).

    Choi taught what he learned during approximately three decades in Japan. He always maintained that it was Daito-ryu. It undoubtedly bears a striking resemblance to Daito-ryu in certain respects.

    Quote Originally Posted by sahng View Post
    ...most schools descend from Ji Han Jae.
    That is certainly true. There are very few hapkido kwans that can trace their lineage directly back to Choi without passing through Ji.
  4. zeropwr is offline

    Featherweight

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    Apr 2009
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    south florida
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    18

    Posted On:
    10/04/2009 8:10pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: hapkido / BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    at our dojo which is direct linage of GM Choi - to GM Chang - Master Allan is 12 BASIC techniques. then each technique can be applied several differnt ways.
    inside circle - outside circle - moving in - moving out and such forth. then after 1st dan im told it just gets more intense. Im not black belt yet. but I know its 12 basic and them many varations of entering- application- exiting
  5. Spug is offline

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    Aug 2007
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    Posted On:
    10/09/2009 5:55pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Jujutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by zeropwr View Post
    at our dojo which is direct linage of GM Choi - to GM Chang - Master Allan is 12 BASIC techniques...
    1. No, your lineage does not go directly back to Choi. Choi did not teach Mr. Chang directly. Your teacher has acknowledged this. Search this site... there are a couple of megathreads about the subject.

    2. You're misspelling your own teacher's surname... it's Allen. How can that be?
  6. zeropwr is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    10/11/2009 8:44pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: hapkido / BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    sorry about misspelling
    my bad.

    type to fast sometimes and dont proof read

    can u send me links of the admittance from grandmaster Chang, Young-Shil. thank you.

  7. modernhapkido is offline

    Registered Member

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    Aug 2002
    Location
    Roaring Brook TWP, PA
    Posts
    3

    Posted On:
    11/21/2009 12:37am


     Style: Hapkido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Hapkido Kwan that does not flow through GM Ji Han Jae

    Han Pul is the style of Hapkido that I was taught by GM Hyun, K.S. To the best of my knowlege GM Hyun was first practitioner of Han Pul to enter the US in 1969.

    GM Hyun was a student of GM KIm, Jung Yoon who was one of GM Choi, Yung Sool first students. GM Kim founded Han Pul out of his own vision of how Hapkido might be practiced.

    GM Hyun's web site:
    http://www.hapkido.ws/

    There is more information sites including additional insights into the relationships of various Hapkidoin...

    Modern Hapkido (mine):
    http://modernhapkido.org/history.html

    Scroll almost to the bottom of the page for Han Pul.
    In addition near the bottom of the page there is a chart developed by Dakin Burdick, Indiana University.

    This is only one version of a long history of Hapkido gathered from multiple sources all of whom have given me permssion to use their material. Granted some of those sources are repetitions of stories told to them with all of the mis and re-interpretations that might occur.


    Sin Moo Hapkido:
    http://www.sinmoohapkido.be/Hapkido%20Family%20Tree.htm

    A brief summary of Han Pul

    Kim's style was also named Moo Sool Won until the name "Hapkido" was adopted.

    This description was taken from a Korean Web site that no longer is on line:

    "Han Pul is a Korean style of martial art unlike most popular styles.

    Han Pul is for people of all ages interested in the serious pursuit of martial art techniques and philosophy.

    Han Pul is NOT sport karate.

    There are no kata or tournaments.

    Students learn focus & technique, not just power & contact.

    Han Pul stresses:

    Long, powerful strikes and kicks that use the power of
    the whole body

    Focused techniques that forcefully neutralize the opponent's attacks

    Joint manipulations for throws, take-downs, pins,
    and weapon defense

    Fighting skills such as falling, rolling, blocking, avoiding,
    and jumping

    Relaxed intensity with pinpoint delivery of forceful
    techniques to pressure points

    Practical self defense, street fighting, and the use of
    common objects as weapons as well as weapons training in knife, short stick, and cane. "

    You may now know more about this than you do about the sex life of penguins. Hope it helps.


    Vic Cushing
    Last edited by modernhapkido; 11/21/2009 12:55am at .
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