Mukashi no jutsu - Doug DeRenzo

**ignatzami** · Posted On: 5/07/2009 3:46pm

Originally Posted by zen_mind

Jeffery
We spar every class. The contact is minimal, however, higher ranks tend to end up in more physical situations. We do some grappling but mostly grappling defense which is practiced live. The class is a martial Art not a martial Sport. The sole purpose of training is to finish the opponent any way possible. There are no rules(i.e. striking groin, etc...) It is hard to explain exactly how it plays out. My suggestion is that if you are interested, come down and check it out.

So, in the terms used by this community you do not spar. If all you do is light contact you are not learning to fight. Sparring is supposed to be as close an approximation to a fight we can get without sacrificing safety. Judo Randori (Sparring) is as close to full power as is possible without sacrificing safety, i.e. respect the tap, don't spike people on their head.

The sport v. Street argument has been done to death here. Sport prepares you for street. If a boxer is well trained, conditioned, and competes in the sport of boxing his skills do not disappear once he steps out of the ring. He can hit just as hard on the street as he can in the ring.

If you grapple, and claim to do so live, what are your instructors credentials in terms of grappling? Who awarded him his rank? has he wrestled competitively, anything less then this and he is not teaching grappling, he is teaching crap.

Originally Posted by zen_mind

As for the question posed, is Sensei Doug Credentialed? I believe someone above answered this question with the people he trained with. I can tell you that( besides the diplomas he has hanging) he understands the art he teaches and he lives it! He is a true master of the old school. I have visited many many schools searching for a legitimate school and have met many many "credentialed" teachers. Many were paper tigers teaching a watered down version of a martial art/sport. They were out of shape and full of excuses of why this won't work or that won't work.
But enough talking because anyone can do that. I invite anyone on this website down to visit the class and judge for yourself based on action not words!

If he has diplomas on the wall please go and write down what he is ranked in, from what organization, by who. This is all we require. This information will allow us to make an informed decision. As to the paper tigers, that is why we care so much about who awarded an instructor his/her rank. if the instructor's instructor is legit and the grade is legit it's assumed the instructor is legit.

I thank you for the invitation, but I'd rather not risk the injury.

**Melchizedek** · Posted On: 5/07/2009 3:47pm

Originally Posted by sten

Melch, I emailed and asked who he trained Sanda with. John Yuan, a 5 time World Wushu Gold medal winner in Brooklyn.Sensei Darel Chase,Sensei John Craig , Sensei Howard Popkin for Jiujitsu and Master P. Lan for Ninjitsu. Sensei R. Bryhan, Weapons. Any of these look familiar?

Hey Sten,
I don't know those guys, but that doesnt mean much. Cool that some of these other guys found some info. Keep in mind that not everyone has a lot of content on the web though, you know?

Regarding his Sanda teacher, by "John Yuan" did/does he mean "Zhang Yuan"? Zhang Yuan seems to fit the description of Wushu Champ (and "Zhang" promounced the phonetic Mandarin way does sound like "John") and has schools in NYC and his site is www.nycwushu.com. I haven't trained there though. Simple solution in determining Sensei Doug's claims would be to check with Zhang Yuan's school . . .
If so, and Sanda is a main part of the curriculum though, why refer to oneself as "Sensei"? Sanda and Wushu are Chinese "arts" and thus do not have "sensei's." Shirfu/sifu's, Shihans, Siboks, sure. Not sensei. Then again maybe his influence is more from his Japanese training.

If his Ninjitsu teacher is Hatsumi, well then, there's no argument there! its just such a pain though to figure out. Sometimes people train somewhere in a particular art or with a name and then use that to start their own school and gain (false) credibility.

Unfortunately man, I'd say pass by and check it out although I'm sure you know the "First Class Free!" thing is BS. You'll never know enough about the school/instructor in one class. I'd say call some of people he lists as teachers if you're set on going there.

Again though, why not head over to a place that is less questionable to begin with? Long Island's got places to train. Isn't Serra's school out there?
Just my thoughts though . . .

**ignatzami** · Posted On: 5/07/2009 3:48pm

Originally Posted by Howard Popkin

Hello,

My name is Howard Popkin and I am the co-owner of the Popkin-Brogna Self Defense Center in Franklin Square.

Bottom line here is Doug Derenzo from Mukashi took ONE class in my dojo Let me say that again, one CLASS.

I have never seen what he does in his dojo, nor do I care. This was made a statement of fact. I don't know who gave out that information, but his experience with me was less then 4 hours on a Sunday a last year.

Howard Popkin

Mr. Popkin,

Would you mind giving us a quick list of your credentials and who awarded them? Both to give us a frame of reference and as an example for other instructors who may be less forthcoming.

**Uncle Skippy** · Posted On: 5/07/2009 3:54pm

Originally Posted by zen_mind

Jeffery
We spar every class. The contact is minimal, however, higher ranks tend to end up in more physical situations. We do some grappling but mostly grappling defense which is practiced live.

Thank you for this zen_mind. What protective equipment is used in sparring?

And what moves does sparring 'typically' consist of? (Punching, kicking, knees, elbows, chokes, locks, etc...). I ask this because I'm curious if the sparring is a reflection of the curriculum taught at the school (you spar with the material in which you train on a daily basis).

Originally Posted by zen_mind

The class is a martial Art not a martial Sport. The sole purpose of training is to finish the opponent any way possible. There are no rules(i.e. striking groin, etc...) It is hard to explain exactly how it plays out. My suggestion is that if you are interested, come down and check it out.

This is hard to perform heavy/full contact or under full resistance without major protective gear. Are these techniques 'pulled' when sparring?

If they aren't pulled, then it is most likely that you are going light, POSSIBLY medium contact with minimal resistance.

Originally Posted by zen_mind

As for the question posed, is Sensei Doug Credentialed? I believe someone above answered this question with the people he trained with. I can tell you that( besides the diplomas he has hanging) he understands the art he teaches and he lives it! He is a true master of the old school. I have visited many many schools searching for a legitimate school and have met many many "credentialed" teachers. Many were paper tigers teaching a watered down version of a martial art/sport. They were out of shape and full of excuses of why this won't work or that won't work.

Bullshido is a crowd of skeptics. We don't take people at their word and "you have to see it" won't settle it for most people here; hence, people are asking questions. The questions asked are not accusatory so I'm unsure of why you immediately got defensive. Somebody just wanted some information and a couple of other people tried to help out.

When you came into this thread, you became a good asset to provide **first hand** information (assuming you do train there). You don't need to defend your sensei because people were just asking questions. This is Newbietown after all and not an investigation.

**Melchizedek** · Posted On: 5/07/2009 4:02pm

[quote=ignatzami;2119187]So, in the terms used by this community you do not spar. If all you do is light contact you are not learning to fight.

The sport v. Street argument has been done to death here. Sport prepares you for street.

Just wanted to completely agree with the statements above. Both that "light sparring" means you are not training to fight, and that the "street" argument has long since been resolved

**Howard Popkin** · Posted On: 5/07/2009 4:04pm

Howard Popkin - Brief Bio -

12 Years Goshin budo Jujitsu - Under Jeff Lovering Sensei - Bellmore, NY
Shodan
7 Years Daitoryu Aikijujutsu Kodokai - Under Roy Goldberg Sensei
No rank

14 Years Daitoryu Aikijujutsu Roppokai - Under Okamoto Seigo Sensei -
Tokyo Japan ( yes, I lived there for a while and then went back and forth)
Yondan
6 years World wind combined Ninjitsu-jujitsu under Kerry Lampkin Sensei(via the Moses Powell/Robert Sugar Crosson Line)
No Rank

Dabble in Karate - James K Roberts Jr - Washington D.C./MD about 5 years
Various judo/juitsu seminars - Wally Jay, Yoneska, Cahil, Depasquale Sr. And Jr., Even rolled a bit with Royce and Rorion at their first visit to the east coast in 92.

Hope that helps !

Howard

PS oh yea, and a 4th dan in a vietnamese offshoot of muy thai, sold to me by a total charlatan in washington DC. He told me that If I taught for him, he would promote me, even though his muy thai was good. About 4 years of that :)

**Melchizedek** · Posted On: 5/07/2009 4:09pm

Originally Posted by Howard Popkin

Hello,

My name is Howard Popkin and I am the co-owner of the Popkin-Brogna Self Defense Center in Franklin Square.

Bottom line here is Doug Derenzo from Mukashi took ONE class in my dojo Let me say that again, one CLASS.

I have never seen what he does in his dojo, nor do I care. This was made a statement of fact. I don't know who gave out that information, but his experience with me was less then 4 hours on a Sunday a last year.

Howard Popkin

Hey, sorry to post so many times relatively consecutively. But if Sensei Doug did mention Howard Popkin in his lineage, and the above really is Howard Popkin, then isn't this thread kicked?

I mean, its hard to be a legit instructor with absolutely no credibility . . .

**Uncle Skippy** · Posted On: 5/07/2009 4:15pm

Originally Posted by Melchizedek

Hey, sorry to post so many times relatively consecutively. But if Sensei Doug did mention Howard Popkin in his lineage, and the above really is Howard Popkin, then isn't this thread kicked?

I mean, its hard to be a legit instructor with absolutely no credibility . . .

It would be nice to invite Sensei Doug to this thread to contribute.

We'd probably want to verify that Howard_Popkin is really Howard Popkin (for completeness' sake) as well. I don't want there to be a possibility of someone effectively putting words in another person's mouth. Howard_Popkin posting his information without much prompting at all speaks volumes about his character though. I wish more people were so forthcoming.

**Howard Popkin** · Posted On: 5/07/2009 4:35pm

www.popkinbrognaselfdefense.com

Please stop by anytime.

Howard Popkin
Popkin-Brogna Self Defense Center
686 Dogwood Avenue
Franklin Square, NY 11010
516-489-1278

Once again, I have only met Doug once and I don't know what he knows. He may know his stuff. I am really only speaking to what I have taught him, which is nothing.

He was a nice guy though.

Hope that helps !

Howard

**1point2** · Posted On: 5/07/2009 4:37pm

This thread needs to be moved or restarted in MABS, and we need to verify Mr. Popkin's identity (no disrespect intended--standard procedure). If Doug lied about that training, then hoooooo boy we have blood in the water.

As for the sparring aspect--let's not get too carried away. If he does light sparring he does light sparring. If he claims that he's deadly and advertises as Ultimate Badass #1, then the fact that his sparring sucks or doesn't exist would be valid fodder. But a lack of good sparring isn't the real meat of the matter here.