Mukashi no jutsu - Doug DeRenzo

**Kintanon** · Posted On: 6/04/2009 3:04pm

Mr.Popkin, the derail about bullet proof vests was my attempt to explain to Mr. DeRenzo that we are not simply bad mouthing people. We don't make baseless attacks, we simply request proof of the claims made by people. He doesn't seem to understand and is apparently of the opinion that asking for his credentials is insulting. His actions (His, not bullshido's, despite his claims) are having a negative affect on you, an innocent third party, through no fault of your own. I believe that Mr. DeRenzo should be held accountable for any harrasment or invoncenience that you suffer as a result of his actions.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 6/04/2009 3:11pm

Why is it TMA Americans are so arrogant that, it is an insult to ask for credentials?

You have to provide credentials for jobs, cell phones, houses, cars, banks, doctors so on and so forth. All these are normally anonymous people. Hell, if necessary, I can request a copy of his IRS records without his permission.

Yet, ask some people for their Martial Arts credentials and "OMG come try a class otherwise it is top secret. How dare you insult me."

Ridiculous.

**Sri Hanuman** · Posted On: 6/04/2009 3:15pm

Originally Posted by It is Fake

Why is it TMA Americans are so arrogant that, it is an insult to ask for credentials?

You have to provide credentials for jobs, cell phones, houses, cars, banks, doctors so on and so forth. All these are normally anonymous people. Hell, if necessary, I can request a copy of his IRS records without his permission.

Yet, ask some people for their Martial Arts credentials and "OMG come try a class otherwise it is top secret. How dare you insult me."

Ridiculous.

And keep in mind, most credible people with nothing to hide, have been up-front about their training and credentials. It's the other side that seems to have trouble presenting credible evidence.

**catfishaggie** · Posted On: 6/04/2009 3:36pm

Originally Posted by It is Fake

Why is it TMA Americans are so arrogant that, it is an insult to ask for credentials?

You have to provide credentials for jobs, cell phones, houses, cars, banks, doctors so on and so forth. All these are normally anonymous people. Hell, if necessary, I can request a copy of his IRS records without his permission.

Yet, ask some people for their Martial Arts credentials and "OMG come try a class otherwise it is top secret. How dare you insult me."

Ridiculous.

A very loose paraphrase "the sun exposes wickedness"

In the case of Sten "The guilty flee when no man pursues"

**Mtripp** · Posted On: 6/04/2009 4:11pm

OK, I have to chime in.

I hate it when it is "about me," but I must.

Do you know what I thought, I mean EXACTLY, when it was suggested I post my certificates? Here it is...

DOH!!!!! (Homer Simson)

I really thought "why didn't I think of that!"

I never saw it as an insult.

**Howard Popkin** · Posted On: 6/04/2009 8:24pm

Please, don't misunderstand me, but when people say they study martial arts, my first question is, with who ????

Question number 2 - For how long ?
Question number 3 - How many hours per week ?

I completely agree with all the questions that were posed to Mr. Derenzo and feel that the members of Bullshido that called me and the ones that posted were 100% respectful and accurate.

There was no rudeness on anyones part, except for Mr. Derenzo. Honestly, I figured that since he knew where to find me that I would have received an offline apology via phone or something, but I guess not.

Please, go on with your investigating. You guys were great.

Train hard.

Howard

**sten** · Posted On: 6/05/2009 7:47am

Originally Posted by Howard Popkin

Ok, lets get something straight here.... There are traditional guys who can fight and some who can't.

There are modern guys who can fight, and some who can't.

That has nothing to do with this.

I think if someone trains properly in almost( I said) almost any fighting system, they will acquire certain skills....balance, strength, speed, etc, just to name few.

Even if someone studies a garage based system, they should be able to say honestly that they study a garage based system. If memory serves me correctly, Rorion and Royce started in their garage, right ?

Bottom line is that this entire thread was misleading. I have honestly had people who know me from around the country ask me "who is Doug DeRenzo?" just this week. Really !

Maybe he was looking for publicity ? Maybe he was looking to mess with Bullshido, I don't know.

What I do know is that a guy who came into my dojo once is using me as a reference for his system, which I have never seen and can't tell anyone with whom he studied.

The rest of the thread here I don't understand... - (see tangent with guns and vests)

Doug, if you are reading this.......bad move. Its too small a world to piss off people for no reason.

Howard Popkin

Apologies again Howard. I do not use your name on my website or anywhere I advertise.My intention here when I posted as someone else who was interested in info. on Mukashi was to see how Bullshido handled the query.
I mentioned your name not as Doug DeRenzo , but as the unknown poster "Sten". It got the ball rolling for my investigation into the workings of Bullshido. A site such as this that has a section on their homepage called
"Douchebag of the Month" , doesn't represent the good side of martial arts. When innocent people get picked on, I get upset. As you can see from the many posts here, no one had anything nice to say.
As to my lineage, my diplomas are here at my dojo if anyone wished to see them. I certainly do not feel the need to post something online. And
what would that prove anyway. I have seen poorly skilled teachers with good credentials. If a teacher is lousy, he will have no students.I have visited and attended classes in two of the largest chains of Martial Arts schools( I won't mention the names, but everyone has seen the commercials) and the "young adult" that was the instructor clearly had no experience, even though he was wearing a blackbelt. Ther will always be good and bad instructors. Bullshido here doesn't just attack the instructor, but th art itself. In no way possible can anyone who posted, say anything good or bad about my art, they have not seen or studied it. Yet the comments pour in. THAT is the reason for what I did here. I have the "balls" to put up my name for ridicule. I do not care what the opinions of these people are. I swore an oath in my art to uphold what I believe to be just. Well, I am doing that. In days past, a school or teacher was challanged to test their school, nowadays, it is all done from a keyboard 1000 miles away,nice and safe. I respect the Gracie family and their world wide challange to anyone. And as you said, if more people spent time practicing and less time posting here, we would all be better off, but I guess the advertisers on Bullshido like the audience that this gossip brings. It's good for the pocketbook. And you are right , I should have contacted you privately. Hope this clears things up.

**sten** · Posted On: 6/05/2009 7:57am

As i have said many posts ago, I have trained continuously since March 1986. should I post my 21 diplomas here? Anyone who would come to my school can see them,just ask. Want to test my art, come in for a free lesson,see for yourself, instead of making false judgements. It's just mob mentality here. One poster makes a negative comment and everyone follows suit.

**Sri Hanuman** · Posted On: 6/05/2009 8:10am

Originally Posted by sten

As i have said many posts ago, I have trained continuously since March 1986. should I post my 21 diplomas here? Anyone who would come to my school can see them,just ask.

Want to test my art, come in for a free lesson,see for yourself, instead of making false judgements. It's just mob mentality here. One poster makes a negative comment and everyone follows suit.

Not quite, sir. Everyone is free to make up their own mind. The opinions seem to be based on the information presented. You have been less than fourthcoming in presenting information that would provide your background, and once again, I feel the need to point out that you were the one who started all this.

The fact that you have an open door policy is admirable.
If someone were to come to your school, would you allow the diplomas to be photographed/translated?

**Sri Hanuman** · Posted On: 6/05/2009 8:31am

Originally Posted by sten

Apologies again Howard. I do not use your name on my website or anywhere I advertise.My intention here when I posted as someone else who was interested in info. on Mukashi was to see how Bullshido handled the query.

Again, I feel the need to point out that there are numerous people on this site with actual academic knowlege of Koryu. Someone has deemed that your style has little to no "mukashi" in it. If all your rebuttal contains is "come down to my school and see it," then you are lacking in the way of arguement.

I mentioned your name not as Doug DeRenzo , but as the unknown poster "Sten". It got the ball rolling for my investigation into the workings of Bullshido.

Yes, but you claimed that Doug DeRenzo references a Howard Popkin as a training source. You DID state this, while pretending to be someone else, so it indeed was YOU who did the name dropping. I reference:

Originally Posted by sten

Melch, I emailed and asked who he trained Sanda with. John Yuan, a 5 time World Wushu Gold medal winner in Brooklyn.Sensei Darel Chase,Sensei John Craig , Sensei Howard Popkin for Jiujitsu and Master P. Lan for Ninjitsu. Sensei R. Bryhan, Weapons. Any of these look familiar?

Next,

A site such as this that has a section on their homepage called
"Douchebag of the Month" , doesn't represent the good side of martial arts.

1. Do you have an issue with weight curlers taking up a squat rack? That's something we may have in common (this month's topic)
2. Is this in any way relevant, or are you merely clutching at straws? My guess, the latter.

When innocent people get picked on, I get upset. As you can see from the many posts here, no one had anything nice to say.

First, opinions don't have to be nice.

Based on your website and the video you presented, people with sparring exp. as well as knowlege of Koryu formulated an initial opinion, NOT AN INVESTIGATION. (That's why initially this page was in YMAS, not MABS.)

Then you got on with a duplicate account, (unless I am mistaken,) and started accusing everyone of talking ****.

Furthermore, you dropped Mr. Popkin's name, who actually HAS lineage/training information on his website, while you do not. This in itself is odd...

As to my lineage, my diplomas are here at my dojo if anyone wished to see them. I certainly do not feel the need to post something online. And
what would that prove anyway.

Legitimacy.

I have seen poorly skilled teachers with good credentials. If a teacher is lousy, he will have no students.

Not true, tons of McDojos, and gullible students who don't know any better. I was one. Furthermore, if a teacher has traceable lineage, we can at least know that he is not teaching some style he made up while watching reruns of Kung Fu in his basement, or watching how-to Kung Fu dvds (no offense intended, just an example.)

Even if the instructor with lineage is poor, at least students know he is teaching something authentic. (If that is what the student wants.)

I have visited and attended classes in two of the largest chains of Martial Arts schools( I won't mention the names, but everyone has seen the commercials) and the "young adult" that was the instructor clearly had no experience, even though he was wearing a blackbelt.

Yes, a McDojo. How does that justify lack of credentials?

Ther will always be good and bad instructors. Bullshido here doesn't just attack the instructor, but th art itself.

No, Bullshido specifically attacks bad instructors, inadequate training, and fraudulent credentials. There are representatives from MANY traditional styles on this forum. Your attempt at making inflammatory statements is rather lacking.

In no way possible can anyone who posted, say anything good or bad about my art, they have not seen or studied it.

1. People with historical knowlege of Koryu (or Mukashi, as you decided to name it, even though it's not the term I would have used...)
2. People with ties to traditional knowlege of Japanese/Okinawan arts (yes, there are many here.)
3. People who are well experienced (people who have been training longer than I have been alive) in sparring/live training, who can comment on the validity of the video you posted.

Yet the comments pour in.

If you have a problem with this, you should not have started this. A forum is about comments, in case you missed that point. It's the moderators and people with definitive, verifiable experience on this board that have the final say anyway.

THAT is the reason for what I did here.

That still makes no sense to me...

I have the "balls" to put up my name for ridicule.

Also Mr. Popkin, and 2 others, if they are indeed real.

I do not care what the opinions of these people are. I swore an oath in my art to uphold what I believe to be just.

And yet you came here with misinformation? How is that just?
Whom did you swear this oath to? Did you make up your art? Doesn't seem very "mukashi."

Well, I am doing that. In days past, a school or teacher was challanged to test their school, nowadays, it is all done from a keyboard 1000 miles away,nice and safe.

No, they have something called a "throwdown" where martial artists of all backgrounds come together to test their skills and level of training. Feel free to show up at the next one.

I respect the Gracie family and their world wide challange to anyone. And as you said, if more people spent time practicing and less time posting here, we would all be better off, but I guess the advertisers on Bullshido like the audience that this gossip brings.

This is the Consumer Report of martial arts (IMO.) They have proven themselves time and time again. They have enough credibility to go around. If you took the time to actually check up on the numerous investigations, rather than mouth off, you would have noticed that.

It's good for the pocketbook. And you are right , I should have contacted you privately. Hope this clears things up.