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  1. BoonDog is offline
    BoonDog's Avatar

    Welterweight

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    Posted On:
    6/02/2009 11:51pm

    supporting member
     Style: running scared

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sten View Post
    S When a member of BS(appropriate initials) comes to witness my class, then you can report all of the facts, until then it is all just so much ill wind.

    This idea is what I have the most trouble with. I do not need to tr something for myself to know if it is good or not.

    Le me use a little analogy. If you watch enough late night TV, you will see infomercials offering great ways to make money in the financial markets. I do not have to buy and try each of these products to know that they are fraudulent. I have a degree in Finance and know the theory and practice that makes these products fraudulent.

    In the same way, this site has members on it who can look at the product, in this case a video of poor technique and a teacher who may or may not be certified in any rank, and smell out falsehood. No one has to show up.. You have given the evidence yourself. Until you provide evidence to the contrary, it rests that your system is questionable. Only you can debunk that with just a little effort on your part.
  2. It is Fake is offline
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    Administrator

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2009 12:29am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sten View Post
    Ahhh, racism. how appropriate. i is Gregor Gorgovich
    No, that would be bigotry.
  3. danniboi07 is online now
    danniboi07's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2009 12:40am


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Cite the web searches.
    Cite the victims.
    Cite where we repeatedly don't visit schools.
    Cite where your "new"suggestion weren't implemented until, after you posted.

    I quote IIF here because I see Mr. Douglas still has not responded to these requests.

    Mr. Douglas, you claim there are victims of our website. You claim we don't visit schools. Can you please show evidence of this?

    I'll admit we don't visit every single school that is mentioned on this website. However, that action is saved for the more serious MABS investigations. Your lie-posts simply asked if we knew anything about your school. When posters just ask questions like that the response is any of the following:

    1. Answers from people who already are familiar with the style/school/instructor.
    2. Suggestions to go visit the school.
    3. Responses of anything found via google.

    Please note, not all are always presented.

    When the thread began you did not ask for a serious investigation. All you asked was
    Quote Originally Posted by sten View Post
    anyone been to mukashi no jutsu on long island?
    and for that you got response #3 from Melchizedek, and #1 from McClaw.
    The thread was ignored until the Zen puppet claimed we were talking trash. The only post that was even CLOSE to HINTING at trash talking was

    Quote Originally Posted by Melchizedek View Post
    Haven't heard of it before man, but wow, that place looks absolutely ridiculous. "Sensei Doug" doesnt mention whom he trained under, where, etc. Both Jiu Jitsu and Ninjitsu have lineages that are easily traceable. Additionally, few people train in Sanda, so you should be able to "dig" a little further on that one as well. If you're set on studying here, I'd at least ask for some additional background info. Just my thoughts though . . .
    This is hardly talking trash as Melchizedek explained why he thought it was ridiculous. You didn't list where or under whom you trained. This is a typical sign of BS. Melch was justified in his statement.

    After that the Zen puppet was treated with respect and asked fair questions. However, the Zen puppet simply parroted the old "just come and see" tactic. On Bullshido, this is seen as a tactic to avoid seriously answering a question.

    Mr. Popkin then showed up and explained that you had only been to ONE of his training sessions. From a personal account, no further investigation was needed. You were already shown to be a fraud and a liar.

    Then Melchizedek showed that he actually DID research your claimed lineage. After a quick discussion on what aliveness was, YOU YOURSELF said

    Quote Originally Posted by sten View Post
    I didn't mean to start a war here, I just wanted some info. I am going to check it out myself. I will let you know.
    Since we (i.e. those of us who aren't IIF) still believed you were a genuine interested party, we saw your post as YOU OFFERING TO ATTEND THE CLASS!!!!!! Why then should we send anyone else? Your fake account just said he would do it for us. Great! Job done! We'll just wait for his write up after he attends.

    Quote Originally Posted by sten View Post
    ....but I am looking for a more complete ART. I will report back. Sten

    So right there is one of the reasons we didn't charge someone with going to your school. Your fake identity claimed he was going to do it for us. WHY then would you accuse us of not sending anyone to your school?


    Mr. Douglas, your "experiment" was flawed from the very beginning. Please stop thinking that you have achieved anything.
    "The pedant is he who finds it impossible to read criticism of himself without immediately reaching for his pen and replying to the effect that the accusation is a gross insult to his person. He is, in effect, a man unable to laugh at himself."Sigmund Freud, The Ego and the Id.

  4. sten is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2009 5:32am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintanon View Post
    I have contacted Mr. Yuan and will await his reply.

    Sten: Do you truly understand the motivation behind Bullshido? Let me explain. You are selling a product which claims to protect people from harm. That's what martial arts is billed as, self defense. Liken this to a product with similar goals, The Bullet Proof Vest.
    Would you put your trust in a bullet proof vest made of materials that had never been tested under fire? Or even one that the maker claimed to have tested, and claimed to stop everything up to .50 cal rounds, but would not show you the test footage, nor let you examine the data?
    Or would you put your faith in the Vest which the makers have video of absorbing 150 rounds of 9mm fire and will even let you put the vest on a dummy and shoot it yourself?

    Which one of those seems most trustworthy? Which would you choose to protect your life?

    We do our best to attempt to test the vest.
    No. Question for you. If you were buying a bullet proof vest for use, would you ask someone over the internet,whose identity is unknown to you, may be false, could be a kid posing as an adult or an adult posing as something he is not ,and take that persons word for it? I would not. If you are,as you say , trusting your life to something ,best to see with your own eyes. If you watch a teacher or his students perform and you cannot tell if the fighting they do is effective , get away from fighting, you are not cut out for it. To guage the effectiveness of an art, join it, get the techniques performed on you and then decide. I trust my eyes, not the comments of Zapperman from Peoria or KillerJoe from Buffalo(made up names here, don't worry). If the site was comprised of professionals MA staff looking at all aspects of the school in question, I might listen , but still not without seeing for myself. people say anything over a keyboard, just to say it,who knows their reasons,. I feel that this type of info. can't be trusted. As a rough guideline perhaps, but the be all end all declaration of "Bullshido" should be left for the individual, and teachers should not have to go about waving their diplomas around at the whim of anyone. If you went to work for a large corporation, you wouldn't ask the CEO to present his credentials, he got there for a reason, if he doesn't live up to your expectations, leave. it's not your job to question him.
  5. sten is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2009 5:49am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BoonDog View Post
    This idea is what I have the most trouble with. I do not need to tr something for myself to know if it is good or not.

    Le me use a little analogy. If you watch enough late night TV, you will see infomercials offering great ways to make money in the financial markets. I do not have to buy and try each of these products to know that they are fraudulent. I have a degree in Finance and know the theory and practice that makes these products fraudulent.

    In the same way, this site has members on it who can look at the product, in this case a video of poor technique and a teacher who may or may not be certified in any rank, and smell out falsehood. No one has to show up.. You have given the evidence yourself. Until you provide evidence to the contrary, it rests that your system is questionable. Only you can debunk that with just a little effort on your part.
    I guess if you were to buy a new car, you wouldn't test drive it, rather, you would just look at a commercial about it and, using your powers of insight, decide that the car in question was good or not. interesting theory. Perhaps I should produce a phony .edited ,polished video that shows amazing stunts, would you approve then? As I have said, a student of mine filmed some classes and used an online free software program to put it together. Sorry if the quality is not up to Bullshido standards. It wasn't meant to be a tutorial of my techniques, but quite the opposite. I don't wish to show over the internet, my arts methods so somebody can steal it for their own. The techniques remain known to those who study the art.
  6. Cdnronin is offline

    Ghost of Kawaishi

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    Ottawa
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    Posted On:
    6/03/2009 6:22am


     Style: judo, parenting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sten View Post
    I guess if you were to buy a new car, you wouldn't test drive it, rather, you would just look at a commercial about it and, using your powers of insight, decide that the car in question was good or not. interesting theory. Perhaps I should produce a phony .edited ,polished video that shows amazing stunts, would you approve then? As I have said, a student of mine filmed some classes and used an online free software program to put it together. Sorry if the quality is not up to Bullshido standards. It wasn't meant to be a tutorial of my techniques, but quite the opposite. I don't wish to show over the internet, my arts methods so somebody can steal it for their own. The techniques remain known to those who study the art.

    When checking around for a car, I research various makes and models within my price range, eliminate most, and test drive only a few. My time is too valuable to test drive everything. I make use of such things as reviews by other owners, test reports and consumers digest. That way I can make an informed decision, much more informed than a quick test drive.

    So maybe you can make another senseless analogy?
  7. Mtripp is offline
    Mtripp's Avatar

    Choked out by Gene Lebell

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    Grand Blanc, MI
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    Posted On:
    6/03/2009 6:46am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sten View Post
    So, who are the judges here, the posters? the advertisers?the 14 year old black belt ? the community? Sounds an awful lot like socialism. i guess it's "guilty until proven innocent" here. But why am I arguing with you?(no need to answer that one, it's rhetorical) I have made my point many times. When a member of BS(appropriate initials) comes to witness my class, then you can report all of the facts, until then it is all just so much ill wind. The last time the community was left to judge we were burning witches and other heinous crimes. No thanks. Signed , a proud New Yorker.
    OK, I'll step up then. I am one of the Judges.

    Look me up; see what I have done and who I've done it with. If you need further information, feel free. I have taken all the heat you have and then some. However the difference is, the places that still talk crap about me, ie the Underground, look like silly asses after I was vetted by this site.

    So, look me up, then we will talk.

    Mark Tripp
  8. Mtripp is offline
    Mtripp's Avatar

    Choked out by Gene Lebell

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2009 6:51am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintanon View Post
    I have contacted Mr. Yuan and will await his reply.

    Sten: Do you truly understand the motivation behind Bullshido? Let me explain. You are selling a product which claims to protect people from harm. That's what martial arts is billed as, self defense. Liken this to a product with similar goals, The Bullet Proof Vest.
    Would you put your trust in a bullet proof vest made of materials that had never been tested under fire? Or even one that the maker claimed to have tested, and claimed to stop everything up to .50 cal rounds, but would not show you the test footage, nor let you examine the data?
    Or would you put your faith in the Vest which the makers have video of absorbing 150 rounds of 9mm fire and will even let you put the vest on a dummy and shoot it yourself?

    Which one of those seems most trustworthy? Which would you choose to protect your life?

    We do our best to attempt to test the vest.
    When the first major vest company came on the market (Second Chance) the owner sent out a simple video. He loaded a .45 (maybe a 9mm it was ages ago) and fired several shots at the targets. He then turned the gun around and fired several rounds point blank into his chest. Finally he shot the rest of the rounds into the targets. He removed the vest, you could see the horrible marks from the bullets hitting the vest, but none went through.

    The Gracies, love them or hate them, put their money up and fought everyone they could.

    I fought NO ONE, but I did provide exact proof for every claim.

    There is a pattern here.....
  9. Kintanon is offline
    Kintanon's Avatar

    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2009 7:43am

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Mr. DeRenzo, verification of lineage, certifications, etc... is only one step in an investigation. As I said before we always recommend visiting the school in question before making a decision. HOWEVER once we have a body of information about a school and an instructor we, as a group, can make some informed inferences about the quality of the instruction available. It may not always be 100% accurate, but we have a fair degree of success discerning schools which can teach you to fight from schools that can't.
  10. creativo is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2009 9:02am


     Style: Judofitness

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Mr DeRenzo:
    It's understandable that being under scrutiny brings some uneasiness, and there's always the risk of the "bullshido anathema" hitting the wrong people, possibly giving a bad reputation and ruining business. As this is the internet, a lot of people can and will read this.

    This is why you

    a) shouldn't have tried to manipulate people here, with your fake initial identity. But then it's already done, so now
    b) you should be doing your best to bring out WHY you aren't BS ("come see me" doesn't cut it).

    Instead, you complain and say Bullshido.net isn't a reliable judge; AFTER you came here yourself, to poke a stick in the beehive.

    Your opinions about how people should treat you and your teaching are irrelevant at this point, so be smart and try to clean up the mess you made. If you wanted to remain "a small blip" on the radar, you shouldn't have come here in the first place.

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