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  1. doofaloofa is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/08/2012 3:26pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Forum detritus #506

    Quote Originally Posted by Necroyunus View Post
    @doofaloofa:
    Hehe, until now I couldn't hear anyone saying they had the same choke before.

    so it seems like a new invention. Hope it becomes useful for other people around the world.

    But a tag, I'm sure guys like Aesopian, Omega etc. must have found countless things themselves so it's probably not worth a tag imho.

    Still, thank you for your appreciation : ))
    Naming rights at least.

    As it seems Y-choke is taken I propose the Y-not choke.

    Your opponant has turtled...Y-not choke?
    Considered in the abstract the boxing ring is an altar of sorts, one of those legendary spaces where the laws of a nation are suspended: inside the ropes, during an officially regulated three-minute round, a man may be killed by his opponent's hands but he cannot be legally murdered. Boxing inhabits a sacred space predating civilization; or, to use D.H. Lawrence's phrase, before God was love. If it suggests a savage ceremony or a rite of atonement it also suggests the futility of such gestures. For what possible atonement is the fight waged if it must shortly be waged again... and again? The boxing match is the very image, the more terrifying for being so stylized, of mankind's collective aggression; its ongoing historical madness.
    Joyce Carol Oates, On Boxing
  2. jnp is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/08/2012 5:39pm

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    Shut the hell up and train.
  3. doofaloofa is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/09/2012 4:39am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Appologies Necroyunus and jnp

    I lost the run of myself for a while there
    Considered in the abstract the boxing ring is an altar of sorts, one of those legendary spaces where the laws of a nation are suspended: inside the ropes, during an officially regulated three-minute round, a man may be killed by his opponent's hands but he cannot be legally murdered. Boxing inhabits a sacred space predating civilization; or, to use D.H. Lawrence's phrase, before God was love. If it suggests a savage ceremony or a rite of atonement it also suggests the futility of such gestures. For what possible atonement is the fight waged if it must shortly be waged again... and again? The boxing match is the very image, the more terrifying for being so stylized, of mankind's collective aggression; its ongoing historical madness.
    Joyce Carol Oates, On Boxing
  4. doofaloofa is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/24/2012 1:46pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigato View Post
    I posted the counter above to show what I see as a big trouble with the suggested choke.
    It is my understanding that all techniques have a counter. The counter alone does not invalidate the technique
    Considered in the abstract the boxing ring is an altar of sorts, one of those legendary spaces where the laws of a nation are suspended: inside the ropes, during an officially regulated three-minute round, a man may be killed by his opponent's hands but he cannot be legally murdered. Boxing inhabits a sacred space predating civilization; or, to use D.H. Lawrence's phrase, before God was love. If it suggests a savage ceremony or a rite of atonement it also suggests the futility of such gestures. For what possible atonement is the fight waged if it must shortly be waged again... and again? The boxing match is the very image, the more terrifying for being so stylized, of mankind's collective aggression; its ongoing historical madness.
    Joyce Carol Oates, On Boxing
  5. jnp is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/24/2012 4:32pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by doofaloofa View Post
    It is my understanding that all techniques have a counter. The counter alone does not invalidate the technique
    Read this stickie please: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=76402

    Your post was moved because it was general in nature. Anyone who is not a beginner should already know that for every technique, there is a counter. I believe this very thing is mentioned in the stickie I linked to above.

    Since you're having trouble understanding the guidelines, please adhere to the following from here on out. The only time you should consider posting in AdGrap is when you can comment on the technique specifically.

    Comments like, "From the turtle position, you can improve your finishing percentage when using the arm triangle choke by lowering your shoulder under them when you wrap your arm around their neck. This effectively extends your reach which in turn makes the choke tighter when you lock it up" See? I commented specifically on the technique of this thread.
    Shut the hell up and train.
  6. bigato is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/24/2012 8:02pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks jnp, nice job at keeping quality in AdGrap.

    doofaloofa, you are that guy who keeps trying to choke from inside guard, aren't you? :-)

    The fact that there is a counter does invalidate the technique when the counter is too easy to be applied even against a very bigger and stronger opponent even after you allowed him to apply the technique as far as he wanted.

    The counter to a good technique will also only work if you apply it before a certain threshold. After some point, it doesn't matter how good the counter is, it will not work anymore. Then you should resort to the ultimate counter: the tap-out. If it wasn't this way, grappling would not work on somebody who learned enough counters. Off course, the threshold in resisting to techniques varies a lot depending on the person, strength, flexibility, pain sensibility etc.

    For example, I once had the nice opportunity to be choked out by a guy who hasn't even passed my guard yet. I was in purple belt already and the guy a white belt with a couple of classes only. That should be easy enough to avoid and even counter; so easy that I didn't care that the guy was huge and his biceps the size of my thigs. Instead of just managing him with the guard, I went straight into armlock. When I saw I was in trouble, it was too late and I had to tap or I would sleep. It was a lesson in humility, never underestimate someone. But in more than 8 years training, that was the only time I was choked this way, although the beginners keep trying. So, choking before passing the guard, is not a good idea most of the time, and should be avoided. I know, I know, you can apply ezequiel from there and it could work. But don't make the exception become the rule. Don't forget the point that is, there are a lot of very bad techniques that should be avoided. They can work on beginners but will only put you in trouble against more skilled people. Yes, there are better techniques and worse techniques depending on the situation. It's not a neutral world.
  7. doofaloofa is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/25/2012 2:07am

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigato View Post
    Thanks jnp, nice job at keeping quality in AdGrap.

    doofaloofa, you are that guy who keeps trying to choke from inside guard, aren't you? :-)
    Appologies guy for dispoiling the forum.

    Well I have been known to try the odd choke fron inside guard (with my puney 4 years at judo), sometimes it has even worked. How do you know that?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigato View Post
    The fact that there is a counter does invalidate the technique when the counter is too easy to be applied even against a very bigger and stronger opponent even after you allowed him to apply the technique as far as he wanted.
    Any counter is easy for a skilled grappler if they know the technique is coming. OP's point was while uke was turtle one hand on the lapel would not ring warning bells and the speed of the transition would catch them.

    Have you tried the Yanus choke or the Bigato counter in randori?
    Considered in the abstract the boxing ring is an altar of sorts, one of those legendary spaces where the laws of a nation are suspended: inside the ropes, during an officially regulated three-minute round, a man may be killed by his opponent's hands but he cannot be legally murdered. Boxing inhabits a sacred space predating civilization; or, to use D.H. Lawrence's phrase, before God was love. If it suggests a savage ceremony or a rite of atonement it also suggests the futility of such gestures. For what possible atonement is the fight waged if it must shortly be waged again... and again? The boxing match is the very image, the more terrifying for being so stylized, of mankind's collective aggression; its ongoing historical madness.
    Joyce Carol Oates, On Boxing
  8. bigato is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/25/2012 8:33pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Let's try to make it simple. Do you at least believe that there are bad techniques? Bad being defined as those techniques that can work sometimes, but have a low level of effectiveness. Or do you believe that no matter what you do, it will work if you do it quickly enough or strongly enough? I ask that because you tell that you, even after 4 years in judo, sometimes choke from inside guard. Maybe you are a very strong guy?

    --- Good techniques:
    - Can be countered if a good grappler see them coming soon enough;
    - Can't be countered if it is too late*;

    --- Bad techniques:
    - Can be countered anytime, even against a stronger opponent.

    * But "when is too late" will differ in each couple of fighters, because of the differences in skill, strength, flexibility, etc.

    Did you understand that no matter the speed in the transition, even after the opponent fully transitioned, the technique in question still can be easily countered, even against a much stronger opponent?

    Do you know that one single hand in the lapel not ringing any bells is something that will happen only when you are starting to learn? Do you know that when you count on speed instead of setup to make something work, you are favoring athleticism over technique? That is bad for your development in the long run. Better use the head to think, fake attacks, etc.

    What's the point of trying it in sparring when I see it's easy to counter even if I allow my opponent to squeeze my neck before I counter?
    Last edited by bigato; 10/25/2012 8:36pm at .
  9. doofaloofa is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/26/2012 11:40am

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    I sudenly feel extremly ignorent

    I'm going to stick to lurking in the ADD Grap forum from now on
    Considered in the abstract the boxing ring is an altar of sorts, one of those legendary spaces where the laws of a nation are suspended: inside the ropes, during an officially regulated three-minute round, a man may be killed by his opponent's hands but he cannot be legally murdered. Boxing inhabits a sacred space predating civilization; or, to use D.H. Lawrence's phrase, before God was love. If it suggests a savage ceremony or a rite of atonement it also suggests the futility of such gestures. For what possible atonement is the fight waged if it must shortly be waged again... and again? The boxing match is the very image, the more terrifying for being so stylized, of mankind's collective aggression; its ongoing historical madness.
    Joyce Carol Oates, On Boxing
  10. cameronenm is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/01/2012 1:42am

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    Forum detritus #506

    Forum Views and Comments?

    Out of curiosity on how many people actually care, but who cares about the amount of views or comments you have on posts? do you like having a lot? or do you go only for the opinions. What do you think? Why?

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