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  1. Jenfucius is offline

    Shogun of Long Island

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    Posted On:
    1/17/2004 10:21pm

    Join us... or die
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    aikido on knees

    what's up with the practice of aikido on your knees? does it have a purpose?

    i don't understand why BJJ starts on the knees either.
  2. Greg is offline

    Welterweight

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    Posted On:
    1/17/2004 10:25pm

    supporting member
     Style: Shnizzletodawizzle

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You can make more money at it that way.
  3. SMF is offline
    SMF's Avatar

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    1/17/2004 10:26pm


     Style: Delusional Idiocy

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well im not going to go into the historical origins of it but it helps in several ways. Firstly it does enhance the kind of co-ordinated hip rotation used in aikido, esp when combined with bokken work. It also helps develop the sort of leg movements sometimes needed when pinning an oponent when standing. Some aikido pins involve the defenders, knees being either side of the attackers shoulder on the ground. It is usefull in training to throw people drastically taller than you. And it gives uke some unique falling practice.
  4. Greese is offline
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    Motorboatin SOB

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    Posted On:
    1/17/2004 10:46pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo and BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Do you find that the kneeling throws work well with resistance? I tried some when starting from the knee and BJJ and it got me no where.
    And that's when I figured out that tears couldn't make somebody who was dead alive again. There's another thing to learn about tears, they can't make somebody who doesn't love you any more love you again. It's the same with prayers. I wonder how much of their lives people waste crying and praying to God. If you ask me, the devil makes more sense than God does. I can at least see why people would want him around. It's good to have somebody to blame for the bad stuff they do. Maybe God's there because people get scared of all the bad stuff they do. They figure that God and the Devil are always playing this game of tug-of-war game with them. And they never know which side they're gonna wind up on. I guess that tug-of-war idea explains how sometimes, even when people try to do something good, it still turns out bad.
  5. Deadpan Scientist is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/17/2004 10:47pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I can get some of them to work.
  6. SMF is offline
    SMF's Avatar

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    1/17/2004 11:01pm


     Style: Delusional Idiocy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I hate the bloody things (aikido kneeling throws) but it seems to help for when you get to try them standing. Its like wow i can use my legs, its probably comparible to taking off ankle weights or some other handycap and going for a run.
  7. Beneath Contempt is offline

    Cowardly Henchman

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    Posted On:
    1/18/2004 5:02am

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    BJJ on knees: Does it have something to do with saving mat space during randori? Possibly instructors with less money and mats needed to get more students in.

    Just a bad guess.
  8. Mufi is offline

    Featherweight

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    England
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    Posted On:
    1/18/2004 7:34am

    supporting member
     Style: Various

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Aikido on kness seems to be more about keeping to tradition that actually serving a purpose. I've heard people attempt to justify it in a number of ways. The most common reason given is to improve posture and force an increase hip movement. My own opinion is that there are better exercises to improve these attributes that don't involve damaging your knees.
  9. Student is offline

    Welterweight

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    United States
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    Posted On:
    1/18/2004 8:03am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I can only say that when I train BJJ from the knee's it's because I want to get right into the ground fighting - rather than starting on my feet, working hard to get the person down and then start the ground game we pretty much just start the ground game (there also seems to be less injuries when this method is used).

    This type of training should not be the only way to train - starting from a standing position should be trained on a regular basis in any good bjj school.
  10. DaveH is offline
    DaveH's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    1/18/2004 8:15am


     Style: Aikikai Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Aikido on kness seems to be more about keeping to tradition that actually serving a purpose. I've heard people attempt to justify it in a number of ways. The most common reason given is to improve posture and force an increase hip movement. My own opinion is that there are better exercises to improve these attributes that don't involve damaging your knees.
    Suwari Waza is an important aspect of Aikikai Aikido (as well as other styles) for three fundamental reasons:

    1) The cultural aspects of Japanese life required a need for the abilty apply one's martial discipline whilst moving freely and effectively when *not standing*

    2) The careful practice of kneeling techniques DO substantially improve Tachi Waza in general

    3) In a modern society (ours) we respect the traditions of the discipline we study, as such we accept all it's facets - practical, non practical, appropriate to our society and those not. We do so because we study a Martial Art and not "self defence"

    Suwari Waza does NOT injure your kness providing it is introduced carefully and with consideration for the student's ability, and health. I would NEVER make a student perform Suwari Waza if they had problems with their knees.

    One could easily apply the 'need' to 'do' argument to a number of other aspects of Aikido; Why bother practicing Aiki-ken and Jo ? I've also seen other debates discussing the 'need' for techniques that some feel are no longer appropriate to a modern society. The answer to those questions/debates is the same as this thread - We do them because it's part of the whole discipline called Aikido. If we were to neglect or cast aside elements that we each individually feel is now inapropriate, we would very soon no longer study Aikido but a bastardised form that would eventually resemble nothing of the Founder's Art.

    Sempai
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