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  1. Beorn is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/28/2009 4:15pm


     Style: TKD, judo, MT noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Women's self defense class advice

    So through various twists and turns of fate, an opportunity has arisen for me to potentially hold a series of self defense seminars at a woman's retreat in northern Ohio. Basically my Mom was there running their crafts thing and talking about how I drink mai tei's and eat bagels (do muay thai and judo) and they basically asked if I could put together an outline of a 2 hour class.

    The reason I am posting here and not in YMAS is though I have the martial experience to reasonably teach something like this, I want to make sure that my thoughts/ideas about the needs of a woman in a self defense situation are correct, and I can really only get that kind of first hand knowledge from LEOs.

    I am getting most of my facts/statistics from here and the thing that is most striking to me is that 73% of all victims know there attackers. This isn't some defense against some guy hiding in the shadows of an alleyway, its defending against that perverted uncle or frat boy who has had too much to drink.

    With those statistics in mind, I felt like most self defense seminars were inherently flawed. They seemed to immeadiately go to the hairpull/groin kick/eye gouge with hardly any provocation. To me, this seems like an unnecessary and possibly dangerous escalation against an attacker if they know/care about you and are just otherwise impaired. It could, IMHO, raise the stakes to the point where the woman is now going to be beaten into submission before she is sexually assaulted.

    With this in mind, the curriculum I put together (which I will lay out shortly) deals in three different levels of escalation; Detterence, non life threatening and life threatening.

    Detterence is mostly verbal with body language/posistioning and situational awareness, with little things to combat someone touching you innapropriately, but not necessarily in a hostile/aggressive manner.

    Techniques on this "level":

    • situational awareness and responding to verbal threats
    • wrist grab escape (i've seen the need for it)
    • shirt grab escapes (thumb peel and popping the wrist)
    • bear hug (over the arms) escape

    Non Life threating is the most important level, IMO. This level is all about keeping on your feet, breaking major holds, getting out from underneath, and controlling the posture of your attacker until you can escape. I also consider it the "delivery system" of t3h d34dly techniques in the life threatening level, meaning that hopefully the things taught in this portion will give them the body posistion and control necessary for the other techniques to work. This level, on its own, is about defending against the persistent aggressor who at the same time is not actively hurting you or taking your clothes off, so there is still a chance to resolve things peacefully. Basically all wrestling.

    Techniques:

    • sprawl
    • maintaining/escaping a clinch
    • front/rear body lock escapes
    • controlling someones posture in gaurd (over/under hooks)
    • sweeping from gaurd (either push or scissor sweep)
    • either an armbar or gulliotine from gaurd

    Life threatening is obviously when the attack is in earnest and there is no potential for escape without hurting your attacker. Groin kicks, eye gouges, biting, weapons, anything that can give you that second to turn and run. Techniques are kept simple with the assumption that at this point in an encounter, no one would be thinking straight so they will not remember anything that is not very intuitive.

    techniques:


    • Kick/knee to the groin
    • raking with the nails
    • biting
    • improvised weapons (?)

    this is what I have so far. I don't want to overload on techniques because I would rather they have time to drill, but I feel like I might already have too much. Also, I haven't submitted this to them, so it is by no means final, and if the LEOs here tell me I am full of **** I will gladly change tack. I look forward to your imput and thank you in advance for correcting any fallacies I might have.
  2. Wounded Ronin is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/28/2009 6:35pm

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     Style: German longsword, .45 ACP

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That is very ambitious for two hours. If you take an overweight female with no self confidence you can easily work on t3h wr1st l0ck alone for like an hour before she gets it. Similarly, if you do a thumb-peel un-grab, but have the student try to peel off a very hard (rather than compliant) grip, it could actually be very difficult to pick up quickly. Not only are these "small circle" style joint locks hard to learn, but they're also hard to apply in a real situation, IMO.

    If I were you, I'd focus on cultivating the willingness and ability to use violence on another human being, situational awareness, things that make you look like a target, and so on.

    I'd explicitly disclaim gimmicks, like stabbing someone with your car keys, and focus instead on wholesale personal implementation of violence. It's like in "The Journey To The West" of Chinese literature, where Sun Wukong is travelling with Xuanzang and they're accosted by bandits. Sun Wukong says, "Master, let's set aside compassion, just for today," and proceeds to strike all the bandits dead with his cudgel.

    So, in the end, I'd go with headbutts, bites to the carotid artery, eye gouges which are preceeded by grabbing the head with both hands to improve aim, and the "applesauce technique", which is not your typical Meredith Gold fantasy ball grab, but is where you grab the nuts and then mash it continally using all your fingers in an undulating way.

    I'd just convey that if someone assaults you and everything's on the line, and we only have two hours to learn, I'm going to encourage you to basically act like a rabid savage. If we only have two hours to learn technique, then there are no techniques a class full of n00bs will come away with that they'll be able to implement when the chips are down.
    “nobody shoots anybody in the face unless you’re a hit man or a video gamer.” - Jack Thompson
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Th...%28attorney%29
  3. IMightBeWrong is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/28/2009 8:51pm


     Style: 9mm/Judo/BJJ/MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Request more hours and get some more stuff in there. Be liberal with your Muay Thai as well. The punches and elbows you can teach these women will be a lot more easily remembered and applied under pressure than many grappling techniques and escapes considering the limited amount of training they will be recieving.
    "Intelligence is nothing more than discussing things with others. Limitless wisdom comes of this." - 山本 常朝
  4. jspeedy is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/28/2009 9:22pm


     Style: FMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm by no means an authority on the topic but i'll thorw in my opinion. Your approach overall sounds good. I think its important to learn how to diffuse a situation before it starts. Once something has become moderately physical the ability to use some force to diffuse the situation is important, and let the agressor know that you (the defender) are willing to physically defend yourself without actually doing so to any extreme (i.e. the "wrestiling " and such, mentioned that dosent involve ball ripping). Often times a minimal amount of resistance will discourage an aggressor from continuing or escalating the situation. This I can speak on from expierence. Of course the more deadly self defense has its place, but a "playful" antagonist can easily be discouraged if not by body language than a little attitude and some mild application of force.

    The situation reminds of a monthly section in a martial arts mag I used to read. Pretty much every month they would have practitioners of different styles do different techniques against various attacks. One in particular had lapel grab defense techniques. Some of the demonstrators were punching the would-be-attackers in the throat and gouging the "lapel grabbers" eyes out, overkill in my book -such a reaction takes the situation to an unneeded level of force.

    I know it's a long reply but i've actually thought about this subject quite a bit. I know several young women who have ended up in "date rape" situations because they were intoxicated and didn't know how to protect themselves or pre-empt the situation from happening. Sure they could have ripped the guy's balls off but if they knew how to realize what was happening and how to change it to begin w/ it would have never happened.
  5. Beorn is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/28/2009 11:47pm


     Style: TKD, judo, MT noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wounded Ronin View Post
    I'd just convey that if someone assaults you and everything's on the line, and we only have two hours to learn, I'm going to encourage you to basically act like a rabid savage. If we only have two hours to learn technique, then there are no techniques a class full of n00bs will come away with that they'll be able to implement when the chips are down.
    thats just it though, based on the statistics I am reading i feel that all of these self defense seminars based around what you are saying are if anything, putting women at greater risk.

    First, women are inherently not aggressive, which means they are less likely to throw punches with any nastiness behind them anyways.

    Second, because of this, they are much more likely to like the grappling based system I am laying out.

    Third, put a smaller female in a situation that doesn't rewuire the force you are talking about (most of them, if I am reading the statistics right) all she is doing is escalating without any real training to back it up. That means she is potentially pissing off someone who though horny, meant her no real harm. Now he's pissed that she tried to kick him in the balls and even if he doesn't want to rape her anymore, he might just want to beat the **** out of her for doing that ****. That is why I am stressing the need to not escalate and if possible respond in a non injuring manner. not to mention the fact that most punches from an untrained person, man or woman, don't really hurt.
  6. rangerdavy is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/29/2009 1:48am


     Style: BJJ, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've done a number of seminars with my campus club, and the best advice I can give you is keep it simple, make sure everything can be done by a relatively unathletic person (no high crotch take downs or fireman's carry), and somehow prepare for women who come to these things, and are scared by males. At a seminar we did recently for foreign students, a number of women refused to do any guard work with a male. Since we only have one girl in our club, it was slow going.
  7. stray_bullet is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/29/2009 5:06am


     Style: Inactive

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    How much do you know about self-defense? Do you actively study self-defense or do you just study martial arts? There are way too many horrible self-defense programs put on by martial artists trying to preach the virtues of their system, consciously or subconsciously.
  8. thorthe power is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/29/2009 7:57am


     Style: Not sure anymore

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I would work on trying to teach escapes in any grappling situation instead of maintaining supperior position...especially for the average female.
  9. v1y is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/29/2009 9:25am


     Style: Internet Warrior, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Who is the authority on women's self defense and rape prevention anyways?
  10. Beorn is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/29/2009 9:26am


     Style: TKD, judo, MT noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by stray_bullet View Post
    How much do you know about self-defense? Do you actively study self-defense or do you just study martial arts? There are way too many horrible self-defense programs put on by martial artists trying to preach the virtues of their system, consciously or subconsciously.
    I do not actually train for self defense, but I have used my training well in self defense situations. At 5'11" and 215lb my self defense scenarios typically involve multiple attackers, which are a completely different kettle of fish than you average females.

    As for preaching a style, I am not going to win any students for my clubs as a result of this seminar. I personally prefer striking to grappling anyways, but I see it as being of very limited use to females who are adverse to violence in the first place. Its all about what I see being most effective for the women I will be teaching.

    Quote Originally Posted by thorthe power
    I would work on trying to teach escapes in any grappling situation instead of maintaining superior position...especially for the average female.
    I will be teaching escapes, but I feel like it is easier to teach how to maintain a superior or at least neutral position and teach the fairly easy escapes from there than get them in a disadvantaged position and teach them the much harder escape. It may be more material, but I think it will be easier to grasp and hopefully more effective.
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