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  1. Plasma is offline
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    Bullshido Admin

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    Posted On:
    4/25/2009 8:18am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: 柔術

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As the thread has turned into a knives suck I have a gun. How many of you CCW holders practice gun draws to knife attacks? How often to you practice circling back to draw to put distance. Maybe Stick will come by and give some insight as I know his defensive pistol class he took drilled that.
  2. Hesperus is offline
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    it's all vanity

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    Posted On:
    4/25/2009 9:03am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kano-Gracie

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Die Less Often proved that going to gun at those kinds of distances without dealing with the attack first equals holes. In you.
  3. Scrapper is offline
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    Fear and bullets.

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    Posted On:
    4/25/2009 9:16am

    staff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I practice various draws every damn day. No ****. Revolver reloads, too. I can get the damn thing out in a hurry if I need to. (provided I don't freeze, panic, or otherwise piss myself.)
    And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

    --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.
  4. sochin101 is offline
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    Graviora Manent

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    Posted On:
    4/25/2009 9:25am

    Join us... or die
     Style: No gym currently.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Dude, you could club the assailant to death with that thing you carry...
    Where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence.

    Gandhi

  5. Scrapper is offline
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    Fear and bullets.

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    Posted On:
    4/25/2009 5:30pm

    staff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    What?? this thing?

    Barely weighs 4 pounds, loaded. 7 rounds of .357. WAYYY better than a knife!

    And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

    --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.
  6. socratic is offline

    How do elenchus?

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    Posted On:
    4/25/2009 6:18pm


     Style: gah, transition again

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Getting a gun in my parts is more mafia/gangster territory. Every asshole cowboy has a knife around here so getting one shoved in your face is probably more likely.

    The problem I suspect with a lot of knives [since switchblades are universally illegal] is deploying it, getting the blade out, and start attacking would get you cut to hell before you could counter. If you had a switchblade all you'd have to do is pull and push the button, which you could probably do in one stabbing gesture, but that isn't really an option.
    Lord Krishna said: I am terrible time the destroyer of all beings in all worlds, engaged to destroy all beings in this world; Of those heroic soldiers presently situated in the opposing army, even without you none will be spared.
    Bhagavad Gita 11:32
  7. Scrapper is offline
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    Fear and bullets.

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2009 8:28am

    staff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Obviously, you have to deal with the initial knife attack. The OP question is so vague it is impossible to answer.

    If he's already real close, the answer to the question "What would I do" is "Bleed" because you won't have time to do anything. If he's more than 20 feet away, you might have time to pull your own weapon. In that magical middle distance it all comes down to luck, skill, and timing; and even then you are going to get cut.

    Best-case-scenario is to do what you have to disengage, and run away. Period.
    And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

    --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.
  8. theotherserge is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/26/2009 4:46pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: sambo/crossfit

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrapper View Post
    I practice various draws every damn day. No ****. Revolver reloads, too. I can get the damn thing out in a hurry if I need to. (provided I don't freeze, panic, or otherwise piss myself.)
    The beauty of this is the drilling and training answers the question. The OP's "dilemma" is on par with asking, "I've never pitched in the big show, but if I'm up against Ichiro, do I throw the inside-edge of the zone or do I try a low-outside corner to get him to swing at my junk-ball?"

    I don't like being so dismissive (well, I sort of do...actually) but vauge scenarios are why self-deluded assholes can teach total BS and charge people for it. There is always a "Attacker does ___ while you do ____" solution. If you're talking about knives, its really fucking irresponsible-IMO.

    A friend who is a Personal Trainer and martial arts dabbler had a client that was held at gunpoint and robbed. We talked about some scenarios (not with the client) and in the end I said he did the right thing by giving up everything he had. An awful experience for sure, but he is alive to talk about it.

    The huge X factor is not the technical solution and your martial arts skillz but are you actually so well trained and psychologically prepared that you know you can count on yourself?

    Really?

    Are you certain?

    ok, I thought not...
    Many things we do naturally become difficult only when we try to make them intellectual subjects. It is possible to know so much about a subject that you become totally ignorant.
    -Mentat Text Two (dicto)
  9. Bram is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/28/2009 11:23pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I just got back in country...saw this thread..
    sceanarios like this make it easy to say OH I 'd do this as bad guy does that.. Only its not going to happen. Combat of all kinds are like snowflakes; each time is unique never to be repeated again..
    telling someone that if you train with a knife or edged tool and you get into a physical interpersonal discussion with another person who ALSO has an edged tool or knife, that you'll escape or cut them WITHOUT getting cut is like saying one can box, spar or grapple without getting hit, taken to the floor, choked out etc as the discussion evolves into a chaotic debate: basically one person drips and the other gushes and it can quickly deteriorate into ne person gushes and the other sports a toe tag. (he's dead in the morgue)
    As to legality: lethal force against you, you can respond in kind...of course as others have said thats a really gross simplified situation that has many legal pitfalls. Any use of force must be justfied and then theres no guarantee that the jury sees it your way..or your local AG sees it that way...
    of course as more states adopt the castle doctrine as we have in Florida the bad guy is finally NOT in the superior position...We are allowed to respond with lethal force if we feel threatened, think we are in danger or think others are in danger..no retreat, no showing you attempted to give way...Self defense is being returned to some of the peoples while at the same time other states and cyber / political sheeple try to ban the right to self defense...

    As the original set up of the poster was done: personally as I teach I'd use my edeged tool against the bad guy..because it seems there is no other response available. If I or my family is in imminent danger of harm or death? I guess I put it on the line..

    Yes I do carry edged tools, yes I design edged tools, yes I teach edged tools, yes I 'm a legal expert in Court on knife use...( big deal right? like that helps anything..except I've seen some cool forensic stuff on knife wounds, fights etc)
    Yes I train in accessing my tool in non standard situations, under duress, within physical discussion...and its no guarantee of success unless success is I survive..even if its I'm harmed for life..
    Of course anything can happen..anything will..

    But in strictest sense of response to the thread posted: is it bad to pull a knife on a guy who is threatening you with a knife..
    No its not..
    Brandishing a knife is a stupid idea...some might respond in like except with real intent and hurt or kill the person brandishing / threatening with the knife.
    the BIG IF:
    Of course the mitigating IF or Murphey factor is its not bad unless of course you can't use your edged tool, you don't train every day with it: drills, actual cutting, accessing, etc etc and you have no MIND to actually cut or shoot someone (see Col Grossman On Killing) and you own a knife ONLY to look cool..
    and you are not ready for you can do EVERYTHING right and still lose..
    so it could be really bad..


    Ok..
    be safe

    Bram
    Last edited by Bram; 4/28/2009 11:30pm at .
  10. Jim_Jude is offline
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    Shime Waza Test Dummy

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    Posted On:
    4/29/2009 1:26am

    Join us... or die
     Style: StrikeyGrappling & WW2-fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bram View Post
    I just got back in country...saw this thread..
    sceanarios like this make it easy to say OH I 'd do this as bad guy does that.. Only its not going to happen. Combat of all kinds are like snowflakes; each time is unique never to be repeated again..
    telling someone that if you train with a knife or edged tool and you get into a physical interpersonal discussion with another person who ALSO has an edged tool or knife, that you'll escape or cut them WITHOUT getting cut is like saying one can box, spar or grapple without getting hit, taken to the floor, choked out etc as the discussion evolves into a chaotic debate: basically one person drips and the other gushes and it can quickly deteriorate into ne person gushes and the other sports a toe tag. (he's dead in the morgue)
    As to legality: lethal force against you, you can respond in kind...of course as others have said thats a really gross simplified situation that has many legal pitfalls. Any use of force must be justfied and then theres no guarantee that the jury sees it your way..or your local AG sees it that way...
    of course as more states adopt the castle doctrine as we have in Florida the bad guy is finally NOT in the superior position...We are allowed to respond with lethal force if we feel threatened, think we are in danger or think others are in danger..no retreat, no showing you attempted to give way...Self defense is being returned to some of the peoples while at the same time other states and cyber / political sheeple try to ban the right to self defense...

    As the original set up of the poster was done: personally as I teach I'd use my edeged tool against the bad guy..because it seems there is no other response available. If I or my family is in imminent danger of harm or death? I guess I put it on the line..

    Yes I do carry edged tools, yes I design edged tools, yes I teach edged tools, yes I 'm a legal expert in Court on knife use...( big deal right? like that helps anything..except I've seen some cool forensic stuff on knife wounds, fights etc)
    Yes I train in accessing my tool in non standard situations, under duress, within physical discussion...and its no guarantee of success unless success is I survive..even if its I'm harmed for life..
    Of course anything can happen..anything will..

    But in strictest sense of response to the thread posted: is it bad to pull a knife on a guy who is threatening you with a knife..
    No its not..
    Brandishing a knife is a stupid idea...some might respond in like except with real intent and hurt or kill the person brandishing / threatening with the knife.
    the BIG IF:
    Of course the mitigating IF or Murphey factor is its not bad unless of course you can't use your edged tool, you don't train every day with it: drills, actual cutting, accessing, etc etc and you have no MIND to actually cut or shoot someone (see Col Grossman On Killing) and you own a knife ONLY to look cool..
    and you are not ready for you can do EVERYTHING right and still lose..
    so it could be really bad..


    Ok..
    be safe

    Bram

    If this is the Bram I think it is, Thank You for your contribution. It's nice to actually KNOW that we have a well qualified subject matter expert present.
    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
    ~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

    "Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
    ~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney
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