International Hapkido Federation

**hapkiyoosool** · Posted On: 4/23/2009 1:13pm

Originally Posted by DerAuslander108

That's the problem. He hasn't.

He's told us they do live blade disarms.

That's a huge warning sign right there.

So, thus, it's extremely logical to ask for proof. Videos. Something.

Extreme claims need extreme proof.

Much of what he says about "sport" shows he doesn't understand "aliveness". He's drawing false dichotomies where none exist.

This is not a critique against what he teaches, but rather, how he has portrayed what he teaches here. It may be his curriculum & material are #1 A-OK, but he does not have the understanding of what this site, Thornton, etc. mean when we use these terms.

Thus, when he makes claims, it's only logical to ask for proof.

No one gets a freebie, look at my own review.

Like I said, if everything's there...everything's there. I've seen good Hapkido, I've seen crapkido. If he actually has what he claims, then it's kosher. Until we've seen otherwise, it's only natural to ask questions.

I can roll with that. I did state that I would provide videos. I am not a producer so it will take me time to tape, download, reformat for web, and upload. If you have the patience, I have the time to give you proof in a reasonable amount of time. Fair? Better yet, come train with us if it is possible.

Here is some insight into what I teach, what I do, and why I am so staunch on my stance on my TMA, not boasting and not saying "na na na I am better than you are. My instructor in Korea (GM Chang Young-Shil) never once handed us a wooden or plastic knife in class. He handed us real knives (KaBar to be exact) saying, and I quote with the most basic English translation: "You think someone out there (meaning outside the school) will attack you with a wooden knife and be cordial? NO! Then you are already dead. Kill yourself now and don't waste your time training. If you bleed in here, you live out there, if you bleed out there, you die out there." An honest quote. A small cut on your body/hand helps you realize how real it is going to be. I am not talking about gaping wounds in the training. Although it has happened. I once put a fellow student in a 3 day coma because of the intensity of our bokken training. I am not proud of it. I attacked him the way we do at full force, he didn't deflect the attack properly and *WHAM!* I have also been knocked out and injured because I was not paying attention or just because I was a young kid and thought I was invincible and could resist an old man's technique. Wrong. Really wrong. I then understood the seriousness of what I was learning. In contrast to play the devils advocate. You can also get a dislocated knee in soccer. It a physical activity having strong contact with other people moving at optimum speed. Any physical activity can be deadly. I have seen people die on a basketball court, at least on TV. The difference is, martial arts original intent was to break things and kill people. Isn't that true? Only a fool would deny that.

We come from a strong military training background. My instructor started teaching in 1960 (when he started his training I am not sure, he never talked about it). He has been teaching the military in Korea ever since. He and Bong-Soo Han taught together before GM Han came to the USA in (I believe) 1967. GM Chang (my instructor) was in the original Hapkiyoosool school with Ji Han-Jae and others of that caliber. He told me to never change, the traditional arts must stay alive and I promised him. Anyone who says that traditional arts are inferior to the arts of today needs a history lesson. You only have to get one arm cut off by a katana to realize you were too slow on the draw.

I learned directly from GM Chang. Again, NOT saying I am better than anyone else because of it. I had a chance to learn something in a way that most people don't get and I am proud of it. Wouldn't you be? The same way he learned, he taught. He has been in the same school since 1968. An interesting tidbit of info. When he had his grand opening of the school in 1968, Masuda Sensei came from Japan to honor him. Imagine a Japanese master traveling to Korea to honor a Korean instructor. You gotta be good to command that kind of respect. I honestly don't ever remember hearing about any other Korean instructor who was honored by a Japanese master. Koreans and Japanese have never seen eye to eye on much. That's impressive to me.

Give me time (not sure why I should have to prove myself to people who will never set foot in my school). Aside from the site's rating system.

**hapkiyoosool** · Posted On: 4/23/2009 1:23pm

Maybe I should be in the RSBD and self defense forum. LOL

***DerAuslander*** · Posted On: 4/23/2009 1:47pm

Biokanii,

Chill.

Understood?

Your teacher is being met with more rational polite conversation than the majority of people who Bullshido investigates.

Doubt it? Spend some more time on this site, look at the investigations forum.

Look at my own investigation.

CHILL.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 4/23/2009 1:51pm

Originally Posted by hapkiyoosool

Maybe I should be in the RSBD and self defense forum. LOL

No, it would actually be worse.

***DerAuslander*** · Posted On: 4/23/2009 1:56pm

Originally Posted by hapkiyoosool

Give me time (not sure why I should have to prove myself to people who will never set foot in my school). Aside from the site's rating system.

Take all the time you need.

Proving yourself is entirely voluntary. No one ever has anything to prove to the Bullshido community. Once a claim is made here, rationality demands proof of said claim. That is how life works. If you don't feel the need to prove your claims, that's not a problem for us. I can deep-six your school review for you at your request.

Bullshido's school reviews, if they are to have any worth, require that they be verifiable. This works in your favor. This is not a simple Yellow Page add. Rather, it is a ratings based system built around an agreed upon criteria, most popularly explained by Matt Thornton. We use the Aliveness Theorem because it provides us with a very reliable, relatively observable means of determining quality martial arts training.

An instructor rating his school highly will be met with questioning by staff members & posters. This is quality control at work.

To protect you, as well, students, especially disgruntled former students, will be met with extreme questioning should they post a school review that is excessively negative without proof.

**hungryjoe** · Posted On: 4/25/2009 9:57pm

From the website, you hardly need to worry about live blade needs. You should, however, worry about your wallet:

Training Options:

Full Time Student $140.00 per month for unlimited classes
$60.00 Uniform
Start-Up Total: $200.00
Monthly dues will be $140.00 each month
with automatic payements.

Month By Month Student Option #1
$200.00 per month for unlimited classes
$60.00 Uniform
Start-Up Total: $260.00
Montly dues is to be paid
before the tenth of each month

Month By Month Student Option #2
$540.00 for a 3 month pre-pay
$60.00 Uniform
Course Total: $280.00 (3 months)
Save $60.00

Month By Month Student Option #3
6 month Plan
$960.00
$60.00 each uniform
Course Total: $1020.00
Save $240.00

Equipment:
Extra Uniform $60.00
Wooden Sword $20.00
Wooden Staff $20.00
wooden knife $10.00

We do not spar for sport or train for competition, therefore there is no need to buy sparring gear or pads.
There are no trophies or awards. Just pure real-world martial arts training.
The

**1point2** · Posted On: 4/26/2009 5:53pm

140 is neither unheard of nor unreasonable for unlimited classes of good training. A uniform...is 60 bucks.

**Jeffrey** · Posted On: 4/27/2009 2:16pm

Those prices are on the high side by South Florida standards, but not outrageous.

ATT Coconut Creeks is $125/mo for BJJ, with a 1 year contract. MT/BJJ/MT will run you $150/mo.

The HKD school I attend in Margate Florida (about 20 minutes from the school in question) is $90 a month w/ no contracts. My wife and I together pay $140.