International Hapkido Federation

**Jeffrey** · Posted On: 4/23/2009 8:54am

I could visit the school in the next couple weeks and observe a class, if that is allowed. I am absolutely not qualified to rate the quality of the Hapkido instruction. However, I believe I am qualified to determine its level of aliveness.

***Omega Supreme*** · Posted On: 4/23/2009 9:36am

Where is this other thread everybody keeps talking about?

**hapkiyoosool** · Posted On: 4/23/2009 9:55am

Anyone is welcome to come in and train with us. If they are willing to, I can show them what it is we do. Yes you will be able to go to work. LOL I don't beleive that you have to really maim someone to get the point across.

Our randori, It is from no holds barred. Punching, grabbing, whatever. It is training for "what if your in a bar and three guys come at you with broken beer bottles." kind of training. I think that is alcohol abuse to spill it on the floor, but it's their perogative I guess. ^_^

LEO training, I have the Miramar Police Department coming in for trianing on June 26 & 27. If you are LEO or know someone who is, please come or sent them. It will be a great time and learning allot.

I will put some video together of what you guys asked. Video of live blade defense and unchoreographed(unpredictable) knife defense with a live blade, not a problem. Why, I think you deserve to see me back up what I am claiming. That is totally fair, but give me some time, I am no video producer. I think you guys will be impressed with my students. They are really very good. The Knife defense video on our website is a live blade if I am not mistaken. Look for the flash of the steel blade. I don't remember that being choreographed either. That video is a training session and demonstration we did for the military at Hill AF Base in Utah. It is a training base. We train, hey whattaya know? The demos are done at a moderate speed and at an exagerated distance apart so people can see what they are going to learn. A full speed demo is too fast to see exactly what transpired during the technique.

We will show you what we do. Honestly.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 4/23/2009 10:07am

Originally Posted by Omega the Merciless

Where is this other thread everybody keeps talking about?

Is Hapkido a good martial art ? - No BS Martial Arts

IMO he gets laid into for his third or fourth "not reading the entire thread but, I'll make out of context posts ripping you apart" replies.

**Jeffrey** · Posted On: 4/23/2009 10:58am

hapkiyoosool,

I'd love to stop by your school and check it out, however, I am absolutely not qualified to render any judgment regarding the overall quality of your instruction. Certainly I have no interest in forming an opinion on your weapon defense, LEO training, and so on. I don't care how "bad-ass" your guys are, or if they can kick my butt, or anything remotely like that.

I would purely be interested in seeing how alive your training methods are according to Matt Thorton's criteria (insofar as I understand them). I'd be happy to get on the mat and do some friendly ego-free grappling, if you're open to that.

Does that sound reasonable? What times are your classes?

**hapkiyoosool** · Posted On: 4/23/2009 11:39am

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

hapkiyoosool,

I'd love to stop by your school and check it out, however, I am absolutely not qualified to render any judgment regarding the overall quality of your instruction. Certainly I have no interest in forming an opinion on your weapon defense, LEO training, and so on. I don't care how "bad-ass" your guys are, or if they can kick my butt, or anything remotely like that.

I would purely be interested in seeing how alive your training methods are according to Matt Thorton's criteria (insofar as I understand them). I'd be happy to get on the mat and do some friendly ego-free grappling, if you're open to that.

Does that sound reasonable? What times are your classes?

Sounds good to me. Classes are every weekday at 8:30am and 6:30pm.
I would love to see what my ratings are from an objective view. For this forum anyway.

We are not so much "bad-ass" as we are focused on outside the dojo applications vs. competition where ya know, rules and timelimits apply. I will explain my view on this. I understand the sport version of the arts and I enjoy watching a good bout of entertainment like a boxing match or a good fight with a little hockey thrown in. Please understand our outlook on the art, for combat purposes. I know I keep saying this and it sounds hokey. The guy on the street mugging you or attacking you becasue hs girlfriend asked you to dance while he was in the bathroom at the local pub, they don't care that someone is a state or regional champion. They are angry and want to really hurt you. It is always safe to assume they have friends nearby waiting to back him up if needed. I realize that you understand this.

You see I am not well versed (as you can tell) in all the sport/grappling terminology. I try to just pay attention to my students and do the best I can to pass down what I know. My philosophy: "If the grass looks grreener on the other side of the fence, it's because you are not taking care of your own yard." Therefore, I am only trying to get some GOOD press for my school to make it grow so I can share the information I carry in my head and heart with everyone who is interested. I am not a "fighter" or a "grappler".

I will enjoy meeting you and training with you. It will be good to shed some light and have a real human back me up instead of some video.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 4/23/2009 11:52am

Originally Posted by Omega the Merciless

I understand my friend but I'm asking as a personal favor to go somewhere else with this. If you would like to question then take it off this thread. Let's start a new thread in the KMA section. I've questioned Jeff many years ago. I trust him. If I'm wrong then so be it. Is this a good compromise?

That's fine but. your trust doesn't give him free reign to say

We are not so much "bad-ass" as we are focused on outside the dojo applications vs. competition where ya know, rules and timelimits apply. I will explain my view on this. I understand the sport version of the arts and I enjoy watching a good bout of entertainment like a boxing match or a good fight with a little hockey thrown in. Please understand our outlook on the art, for combat purposes. I know I keep saying this and it sounds hokey. The guy on the street mugging you or attacking you becasue hs girlfriend asked you to dance while he was in the bathroom at the local pub, they don't care that someone is a state or regional champion. They are angry and want to really hurt you. It is always safe to assume they have friends nearby waiting to back him up if needed. I realize that you understand this.

You see I am not well versed (as you can tell) in all the sport/grappling terminology. I try to just pay attention to my students and do the best I can to pass down what I know. My philosophy: "If the grass looks grreener on the other side of the fence, it's because you are not taking care of your own yard." Therefore, I am only trying to get some GOOD press for my school to make it grow so I can share the information I carry in my head and heart with everyone who is interested. I am not a "fighter" or a "grappler".

There in lies the problem. His history is off. His opinions are against what people feel.

This is what gets everyone up in arms. The compromise has to be mutual. If you want people to stop attacking his points, he needs to stop raising them in this thread.

***Omega Supreme*** · Posted On: 4/23/2009 12:08pm

I just don't see what the problem is. He's not down playing sport. He's just stating what he does. In your opinion he can't have those rankings without the competitive part of it. Fine, then rank it to your best capabilities and balance the formula. A grappling of 5, striking of 7? Those don't sound unreasonable. You question the weapons? Fine then rank it. He's given you the necessary information.

Like I said, I feel hypocritical asking this as I've gone off on individuals but I just don't see much wrong with his responses. You feel his aliveness is wrong? Go to his school and find out. I know a few Hapkido and Aikido guys that do pretty well on the aliveness part and don't do competition. Of course they practically kill each other on the mat.

***DerAuslander*** · Posted On: 4/23/2009 12:24pm

Originally Posted by Omega the Merciless

You question the weapons? Fine then rank it. He's given you the necessary information.

That's the problem. He hasn't.

He's told us they do live blade disarms.

That's a huge warning sign right there.

So, thus, it's extremely logical to ask for proof. Videos. Something.

Extreme claims need extreme proof.

Much of what he says about "sport" shows he doesn't understand "aliveness". He's drawing false dichotomies where none exist.

This is not a critique against what he teaches, but rather, how he has portrayed what he teaches here. It may be his curriculum & material are #1 A-OK, but he does not have the understanding of what this site, Thornton, etc. mean when we use these terms.

Thus, when he makes claims, it's only logical to ask for proof.

No one gets a freebie, look at my own review.

Originally Posted by Omega the Merciless

Like I said, I feel hypocritical asking this as I've gone off on individuals but I just don't see much wrong with his responses. You feel his aliveness is wrong? Go to his school and find out. I know a few Hapkido and Aikido guys that do pretty well on the aliveness part and don't do competition. Of course they practically kill each other on the mat.

Like I said, if everything's there...everything's there. I've seen good Hapkido, I've seen crapkido. If he actually has what he claims, then it's kosher. Until we've seen otherwise, it's only natural to ask questions.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 4/23/2009 12:33pm

Originally Posted by Omega the Merciless

I just don't see what the problem is. He's not down playing sport. He's just stating what he does. In your opinion he can't have those rankings without the competitive part of it. Fine, then rank it to your best capabilities and balance the formula. A grappling of 5, striking of 7? Those don't sound unreasonable. You question the weapons? Fine then rank it. He's given you the necessary information.

You stepped in late okay? They aren't unreasonable now. He changed them and I left the thread alone.