International Hapkido Federation

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 4/21/2009 12:49pm

Never mind.

Good review Der.

I still think it is hard for many Instructors to remain unbiased.

**Ming Loyalist** · Posted On: 4/21/2009 12:53pm

Originally Posted by hapkiyoosool

Untested Technique? Prove that please. Now I know you do not read carefully what I have written and you have no recourse to argue with me.

Did you know that Hapkido is taught to the Korean Special Forces? It worked in Vietnam for them and it works for us today. My father was first exposed to Hapkido while in Vietnam by the Korean soldiers he served with. They told him it was Hapkido then that they were using in real hand to hand combat. Check the history books. Untested??

that is all anecdotal evidence that has no relation to the abilities of you and your students.

now, if you could come up with evidence of you and preferably your students also using these techniques to tear apart joints, maim and kill, then we might pay attention to your claims.

it would also be nice to see evidence of your abilities with weapons. i mean, you are pretty sure of your abilities, right? so you must have killed a few people, right? and when people get killed, there is a police report, so we'd like to see that too.

as i said before, this site is about backing up claims with empirical evidence. that's what we do here, so unless you are bringing that stuff to the table, you really don't have a leg to stand on when complaining about how you are treated.

i have worked hard to be straight with you and not be insulting, and you have responded well to my posts, so i hope you can also see where we are coming from with our review guidelines.

***DerAuslander*** · Posted On: 4/21/2009 1:10pm

Videos of live blade disarms will clear even more up.

***DerAuslander*** · Posted On: 4/21/2009 1:12pm

Originally Posted by It is Fake

Never mind.

Good review Der.

I still think it is hard for many Instructors to remain unbiased.

Not everyone could be me.

***Omega Supreme*** · Posted On: 4/22/2009 10:50pm

Okay guys for the record I closed this thread and will be opening it here in a few minutes. A long time ago Jeff came to this board and we discussed these things at length. I've personally talked to Jeff and are familiar with his teachings. If you don't agree to his rating simply ask him (as in the dog brothers comparison) if he does this level and then put your own rating in there.

I feel like a hypocrite asking you guys to do this as I've jumped on many instructors cases for not being unbiased in their ratings but I'm asking you guys to do this. We've had former members of this forum go in and try out his gym. If you doubt his capability walk into his kwoon for a class. Don't be a coward about this. Thread opened.

***DerAuslander*** · Posted On: 4/22/2009 11:21pm

Without actually being able to go there, all we can do is ask for evidence.

I am more than willing to accept his ratings if he can back it up. 10 levels from an art that's typically dead should be met with some level of skepticism.

If we actually have members who've been to his dojang, their input & verification would be extremely helpful.

***Omega Supreme*** · Posted On: 4/23/2009 12:45am

I understand my friend but I'm asking as a personal favor to go somewhere else with this. If you would like to question then take it off this thread. Let's start a new thread in the KMA section. I've questioned Jeff many years ago. I trust him. If I'm wrong then so be it. Is this a good compromise?

***DerAuslander*** · Posted On: 4/23/2009 12:58am

Your backing him is fine with me as far as the veracity of his ratings. I see no reason that asking for examples would be out of line, especially since it could only enhance the knowledge of others on this board, who often like to dismiss things they don't have first hand experience with.

**hungryjoe** · Posted On: 4/23/2009 1:02am

Omega,

I'm kind of busy at the moment to travel to meet Jeff.

However, he has offered to use his air miles and visit 1.2.

Oklahoma is much closer.

I do doubt the aliveness ratings, but would be willing to rate after a visit from Jeff and subsequent lesson (however that may go). I would like to be able to make it to work the next week and feed my family.

An acceptable rule set would need to be established.

No hard feelings. I can surely use the lesson to knock the rust off of my HKD.

If Jeff is willing.

Joe

**1point2** · Posted On: 4/23/2009 8:48am

I am not a good representative for meeting the guy, since A) he intends a challenge match with me because of the other thread, B) I'm not exactly hot stuff with standup clinch or ground, C) I'm not interested in a challenge match with the guy anyway. So let's take that off the table. Hungryjoe is a much better option since there's no hard feelings between them, and Joe has HKD experience.

My main concern is that as far as I can tell from what he said, his school doesn't spar, yet he specifically said his techniques are deadly and used in the military. His randori (as he explained it) is aikido-attackers-from-all-sides, not judo/BJJ rolling or clinchwork. I just want the ratings to match the reality.

If he trains LEOs, and they use his stuff, then that qualifies for high grappling ratings. I wonder about (again, his descriptions) live blade unpredictable-attack knife defenses that he's claiming.