[Dsimon3387]

Originally Posted by txgrunt

I understand your disbelief about Ju Te and Mr Blackwell as I have have some negative opinions about other MA schools and instructors. I just don't go trashing them and accusing them of being fraudulent. If people ask, I'll give my OPINION, not judgement. I don't expect (or care) if you or any one else thinks Ju Te is legit or not, I can still kick some serious butt if I have to, even if it does looks sloppy because 90% chance I will be fighting some punk who does not have any MA or self defense training. As for the term JUDO we use, Mr Blackwell only uses that term as similarity term since the name "Ju Te" does not really convey what Ju Te is all about. Mr Blackwell makes it perfectly clear that Ju Te is in no way associated with the Kodokan or any other Judo association, but we do use judo terms as lingua franca since those move have no American names. As for YOUR statement, again misquoted since you've already made up your mind, I never said Ju Te was "deadly". I said we can't apply it for real during tests. Just like you can't break some one's elbow in an armbar during a competition, we're not going to hurt some one on the mat for the sake of proving your ability to know a move. So, as in Ju Te Ryu Goshin Jutsu ( American Combat Judo), I'm not going to allow myself to get dragged in to your fight to prove a point. If you think you won, than so be it. You won. Happy?
Peace Be With You.

You know man for a moment there I thought you were receptive... and you know what I understand you probably feel attacked on this thread. But listen if your a military man your allegedly.... a tough guy.... and often martial arts lessons are taught in tough ways. The last time I visited my school my teacher who thinks the world of me said "Helloe" with a bloody nose and a nice knock down to the chops, I didn't do anything wrong that was a hug... hey if I wanted a kiss I would have gone to my wife though right?

Take the lesson to heart... somebody has made an overture to you on this thread... thats called an opportunity and what you had to endure on this thread might be called an opportunity cost. People get upset about this shit for a lot of reasons: here is one great one. There are arts in Japan that have a clear line of transmission of about 500 years or so. In 500 years from now will Judo make that same claim? Clear lines of transmission are important they vouch that the art has been developing and been fundamentally transmitted over a period of time.

I love Egyptian and Roman martial arts, or I would ... too bad no transmission of these arts exist because nobody gave a fuck... So naturally the Judo people get a bit offended when someone cross pollinates their art yet has no measure of experience in the art itself.

I hope you take the time to explore what a judo dojo has to offer and make up your own mind. You might even wind up empathizing with some of the people who have given it to you on this thread.

[tkdjudohead]

I understand what the Ju Te guys must feel. If someone told me that I had spent years investing in a martial art that had no legitimacy then I would be upset. I get that but what I do not get is the fact that all 4 of them (five including Blackwell since we know he reads this thread) have tried to answer the very basic questions put forth.

If Blackwell has a background in any martial art then all he has to do is say so. Every martial arts teacher that I have ever had will eventually tell me a story about his training and his teacher(s) and I do the same. If Ju Te was my style then I would be pushing to get the answers to the questions asked here. I will gladly make a logical fallacy here in that I assume that they have been told by Blackwell to not answer any questions here. They each post a couple of times and then disappear off the thread.

I have to worry about this being taught at the local university. Ukemi took me forever to learn as falling is just not natural. I was restricted to what I could learn in Judo till my falling improved. I am greatful for this as it kept me from harm. I can only imagine what happens to someone that is rushed into a series of throws without understanding how to land. It has been stated that he had a couple of injuries in his university class and I hope they are not too severe but I can only imagine what injuries can/will happen without a understanding of how to fall.

[tkdjudohead]

Have not tried to answer the basic question.
Will do better in checking my own post. All apologies.

[It is Fake]

Originally Posted by txgrunt

I understand your disbelief about Ju Te and Mr Blackwell as I have have some negative opinions about other MA schools and instructors. I just don't go trashing them and accusing them of being fraudulent. If people ask, I'll give my OPINION, not judgement. I don't expect (or care) if you or any one else thinks Ju Te is legit or not,

Yes, you do as well as the other Ju-Te supporters. You wouldn't be calling everyone names and demanding we accept Ju-te if you didn't care.

Originally Posted by txgrunt

I can still kick some serious butt if I have to, even if it does looks sloppy because 90% chance I will be fighting some punk who does not have any MA or self defense training.

We call this the training for the Lowest common denominator.

Originally Posted by txgrunt

As for the term JUDO we use, Mr Blackwell only uses that term as similarity term since the name "Ju Te" does not really convey what Ju Te is all about. Mr Blackwell makes it perfectly clear that Ju Te is in no way associated with the Kodokan or any other Judo association, but we do use judo terms as lingua franca since those move have no American names.

Doesn't matter, Judo is a specific term. Nice little strawman you built. There are legit Judo players out there that aren't part of an association. Thing is, they have legit rank. Again you guys have a hard time grasping this fact.

http://www.gusstrand.com/jtr/index.p...id=1&Itemid=36

Originally Posted by JTR website

In JTR, we use the kyu/dan system and in the Combat Judo program wear the judogi. In the H2H program we wear the karategi.

Originally Posted by JTR website

Welcome to the Ju Te Ryu Austin home. We're blessed by your presence! Check back often. We intend for this place to grow, and be a resource for Ju Te Ryu - American Combat Judo - for a good long time.

Originally Posted by JTR website

JTR is an adaptation of judo for strictly self-defense purposes. It is referred to as "American Combat Judo"--not for nationalistic reasons, but because it is truly American in its approach.

He can use all the terms he wants in class IMO.

It isn't judo.

As for YOUR statement, again misquoted since you've already made up your mind, I never said Ju Te was "deadly".[B]

Originally Posted by IIF

Uh the deadly. Thank you we have never heard this before.

Yes, that is sarcasm.

Do me a favor and read what I wrote. It is bigger now please note the word "SARCASM."


I do like how I misquoted you but, you misquote yourself.

I said we can't apply it for real during tests.

No, that isn't what you said at all. I quoted what I was addressing here, let me do it again with an explanation.

Originally Posted by txg

Unlike many other Martial arts Ju Te has no medals, ribbons, or trophies because Ju Te is not a sport, (we don't compete using Ju Te beacause we'd eventually all end up in the hospital). It is only used as a LAST resort in confronatation after all other methods of conflict resolution have failed (to include walking away).

This is what you said.

This is called the Street vs. Sport debate.
It is also called the deadly.

I emphasized the parts you misunderstood. This has nothing to do with tests at all.

Every art, that is questioned, throws out effectiveness as proof. One of the things they do is say things like, we can't spar, train, compete because we will end up,/put you in the hospital, grave, etc etc etc.

On bullshido we call this "the deadly."

Originally Posted by txsgrunt

Just like you can't break some one's elbow in an armbar during a competition, we're not going to hurt some one on the mat for the sake of proving your ability to know a move.

Hunh, you guys don't compete so why even bring this up?

Originally Posted by txsgrunt

So, as in Ju Te Ryu Goshin Jutsu ( American Combat Judo), [B]I'm not going to allow myself to get dragged in to your fight to prove a point.

Wait What?

Originally Posted by txsgrunt

You dragged me to this dead horse beating so here I go

Originally Posted by txsgrunt

If you think you won, than so be it. You won. Happy?
Peace Be With You.

I'll be happy when he removes all references to Judo on his website.

[Mtripp]

OK, I'm done listening to the "you don't break arms" in Randori/Shiai defense.

First, ask ANYONE who has seen my right arm, yes we do. One hopes it isn't on purpose, but it does happen.

Second, the ONLY reason we don't break more things is because we are "sporting."

In the entire sport vs street debate, the jerk off's too deadly too spar lose the context of what sporting means. We are not trying to apply flag football to a street fight here. That really is the point they make. Ours is that one can choose, very quickly, to be sporting or not.

When you throw someone, how often to you "go terminal" (Judoka, tell the room how that phrase came to be) and land full power on Uke? BJJ people, do you know the knee on chest/stom position is actually a dynamic motion to be done as you throw someone? You are supposed to throw them hard and slam into them/land on them in that position. However, we "ease up" because we are being sporting. When someone taps, do you let go? Why? Because we are being sporting.

The oft quoted and fatuous claim that this is the exact same thing as not doing "deadly" moves fails due to the context of the above. The ONLY thing preventing you from breaking that arm is, you are being "sporting." The opponent would NOT tap unless his arm was in danger and can not escape the lock. In a "real fight" the ONLY adjustment needed to be made is "quit being sporting."

OK, for debate lets say you train so hard in "sport" Judo that in the real fight you don't land on the guy. Combative Sambo doesn't land on the guy (mainly because if you do in Sport Sambo you don't get the total victory,) they are standing, you are on the ground, and the stomping you are about to get is going to end your life. In fact, Combative Sambo trains in the best ways to stomp a man when he is down. If all you did was dump the guy (watch the clip I placed here) and ran... I submit the fight is most likely over.

The CORE issue is, can we apply these techniques against someone who is bigger, stronger, and willing to stop me by any means fair or foul? The Stooge-jitsu masters (eye poke crowd) all believe that they have the answer with these deadly techniques that they have NEVER applied in a real time, full speed, full power, against a resisting opponent, setting.

That we continue to have to explain the flummery in that above statement is beyond comment, so I will stop here... save for this.

"American Combat Judo" is on their patch. Yet they have ZERO legitimate Judo training. No training in ANY form of Judo; not even the Juko-lie brand of BS. If "self-defense" training was the goal, why not "American Combat Goshinjutsu?" The word Judo was selected, after careful thought, by people that have NO right to use that term.

THAT is my problem with this Bullshido group.

[It is Fake]

Originally Posted by Mtripp

"American Combat Judo" is on their patch. Yet they have ZERO legitimate Judo training. No training in ANY form of Judo; not even the Juko-lie brand of BS. If "self-defense" training was the goal, why not "American Combat Goshinjutsu?" The word Judo was selected, after careful thought, by people that have NO right to use that term.

THAT is my problem with this Bullshido group.

/end thread.

Pay attention, we have been saying this for pages. Your instructor purposely used "Judo" and knew what he was doing.

There it is laid out clearly and succinctly.

The rest of the post is great but, as we have watched, they seem to type long responses then ignore long responses.

[Coach Josh]

Unfortunately new people to this site think that some of us are idiots and think that we are talking out of our asses. Is it our opinion? Yes it is but there is a difference its our expert opinion. Several of us here are experts in our field of study.

This is not to say that we are right all the time but the fact that we have been doing our art longer than many have been alive. Most are certified by a real national governing body to train others in our art, not an organization made by one guy and a printer.

On the point that the terms used by Jute group have no English translation you are mistaken. All of them have an English translation for example O-goshi = Big hip. They even have a term for the throw in wrestling, hip toss. The French system didn't use Japanese at first they just called it Hip Throw 2. They just gave all the hip tosses numbers as well as the hand and foot throws. (IDK if they are still doing it now, my experience with French Judo came second hand from Jacque Legrand and Theron Larroquette). So again one of the system's principles/philosophies has been proven wrong.

[Coach Josh]

One more point Judo randori is meant to be safe way to train techniques at full speed. The idea behind it is that you do not want to hurt your partner so he can come back to the gym tomorrow and train again so y'all can both get better.

I have had both my knees destroyed due to Judo in a 5 year span. It was not from randori or training but in competition. Both of them real accidents that I where not due to someone doing shitty techniques but mainly from me going ass out to try to win the match. On one I misplaced my weight on a taitoshi which took my knee 90 degrees to the side and the other my pivot foot got caught on the mat and I spun it 180 degrees. Both very vicious but I know it was an accident. The way that knee got hurt on the video was due to someone performing a technique in a bad manner that almost always causes injuries. A good instructor would insure that his students know about that situation and advise against it. Not to say it have stopped it but it would at least be known. And knowing is half the battle.

[garzafight]

TXgrunt has sent me a message through myspace.

"Hey Garza.
I'm not really sure who you are. At first I thought you were a Ju Te Student, If you are, O.K. If not,have the balls to reveal yourself. I've posted on bullshido for the last time, I will not continue to post for the sake of pointless childish bickering. SOME ONE is trying to keep this pointless thread going and I want I to know who it is. The subject of "legitimacy" is irrelevant! Trying to trash Mr Blackwell is SLANDER! This subject goes beyond MA or personal attacks. I do not speak on behalf of Ju Te, but I have been personally attacked (On the video which I have removed from You Tube and MySpace). Please respond."

[Mtripp]

Originally Posted by garzafight

TXgrunt has sent me a message through myspace.

"Hey Garza.
I'm not really sure who you are. At first I thought you were a Ju Te Student, If you are, O.K. If not,have the balls to reveal yourself. I've posted on bullshido for the last time, I will not continue to post for the sake of pointless childish bickering. SOME ONE is trying to keep this pointless thread going and I want I to know who it is. The subject of "legitimacy" is irrelevant! Trying to trash Mr Blackwell is SLANDER! This subject goes beyond MA or personal attacks. I do not speak on behalf of Ju Te, but I have been personally attacked (On the video which I have removed from You Tube and MySpace). Please respond."

Please pass this on:

Gentlemen,

If you feel a single comment I have made is actionable in any way... please, sue me.

I would welcome the chance in open court to ask some questions of my own.

Mark Tripp
Judocoach@aol.com