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  1. Totemicist is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/15/2009 5:52am


     Style: BJJ & K1

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Yrkoon9 View Post
    I was reading about a Somali "response" to the rescue. It seems that a few of them decided to shoot mortar rounds at a congressman's plane. Yeah...shoot mortar rounds... at a plane.

    ...brilliant...

    I honestly hope **** gets totally out of hand there. I really hope they pull me out of Iraq for my last couple of months and send me there without our hands tied. Just lay waste to that whole fucking shithole. Forget about a humanitarian mission, a rebuilding process, and building democracy. What they need are a heaping helping of tanks, bombs, and death.
    I don't often get the opportunity to talk to many Somali's but I have spoken to a few and they all seem a lot more reasonable and less violent than you.

    I absolutely agree that non negotiation is the best policy for dealing with hostage situations but think that there just might be far better solutions restabilising the region than your enlightened lets bomb the **** out of them.

    You do not seem to acknowledge in any way that your government (and its crazy attempts to stop Islamification) might be responsible for some of the destabilasation of Somalia over the last decade or so.

    Which has in turn created a situation where their Somalia has no means to police its own population and piracy has become rife.
  2. 1point2 is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/15/2009 12:13pm

    Join us... or die
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    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/16/wo...a.html?_r=1&hp

    The French (yes, the French) along with the EU committee are dealing with the pirates reasonably--with appropriate force and trials and prison. Blast in, capture when possible kill when necessary, kick ass, take names, go home with their ship and put 'em to trial like civilized folk.

    This satisfies my CRUSH THEM desires, as well as my RULE OF LAW **** YEAH desires.
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates
  3. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    4/15/2009 2:34pm

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     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Why do huge ships stop for pirates in the first place? Can't they just close their hatches and ignore the tiny speedboats?
  4. joecos is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/15/2009 2:50pm


     Style: Karate, BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShark View Post
    Why do huge ships stop for pirates in the first place? Can't they just close their hatches and ignore the tiny speedboats?

    The pirates boats are faster. They throw grappling hooks and ladders with hooks over the rails and board while the ship is moving.

    From recent news stories it looks like the crews are being trained to barricade themselves in the engine/steering compartments, yell for help, and hope a military vessel shows up before the pirates get to them.
  5. Urban Achiever is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/15/2009 3:06pm

    Bullshido Newbie
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    NBC stated that the liability premium for armed security cost more than the ransom demanded by the pirates. This may by why some shipping companies are reluctant to order up some armed security.

    On a side note I think any attack on an American vessel should equal death to the pirates. Thomas Jefferson had the right idea.
  6. joecos is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/15/2009 3:19pm


     Style: Karate, BJJ

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    MSNBC has a good write-up on the issue:

    Quote Originally Posted by MSNBC
    High-tech vs. the pirates
    Posted: Monday, April 13, 2009 7:01 PM by Alan Boyle

    Matthew Frank / U.S. Navy Military Sealift Command
    The U.S. Navy's Maritime Expeditionary Security Group 2 uses a
    laser distractor to warn a simulated vessel to keep its distance.

    Right now the best defenses against Somali pirates like the ones involved in the past week's drama on the high seas are fast engines and fire hoses - but the U.S. military is working on some high-tech anti-piracy gizmos that just might end up on commercial vessels as well.

    The sharpshooting ability of U.S. Navy snipers was the decisive factor in ending the standoff with seaborne kidnappers who held American ship captain Richard Phillips hostage on a lifeboat off the coast of Somalia. The problem is that the Navy can't always come to the rescue - and even when they do, a violent outcome runs the risk of a serious downside.

    For evidence of that, you don't have to look any further than the outcome of a different hostage situation involving a French sailboat. When French commandos stormed the vessel on Friday, one of the hostages was killed, along with two of the kidnappers. The incident involving Phillips has a bit of a downside as well: Now Somalis are vowing to take their revenge on French and U.S citizens.

    An international naval task force has been assembled to watch out for pirates, but those forces are spread thin - and tech-savvy pirates have been using GPS locator devices and satellite phones as well as AK-47s and rocket launchers to cause trouble and elude capture.

    More guns for the good guys?
    One obvious strategy change would be to arm the crews of shipping vessels sailing through the danger zone - but Douglas Macdonald, a political science professor at Colgate University who is an expert on anti-piracy measures, told me that that strategy would have its downsides as well.

    "There are all sorts of international legal constraints," he said. "And the crew unions don't want to take on this responsibility. ... It's similar to the debate over whether you want to arm airline crews."

    Another option would be to bring in the professionals - and in fact, Blackwater, the private security company that was heavily involved in Iraq, has offered protection-for-pay for shipping through the Gulf of Aden. The worry there is that Blackwater's involvement could end as badly as it did in Iraq.

    "Separating the innocent fishermen from the pirates is going to be hard," Macdonald said.

    Besides, that kind of protection is expensive: In a European Commission report, Policy Research Corp's Gustaaf De Monie estimated that having a licensed security guard on board could cost $60,000 for each ship transit.

    Turn to non-lethal weapons?
    Somalia's tricky political situation is one of the reasons why non-lethal deterrents are the most common anti-piracy tools, for the U.S. military as well as to commercial shipping firms. Currently, the preferred strategy is to fire up the engines to outrun the outlaws, and blast them with fire hoses if they try to board.

    The next steps run the gamut from higher-powered, more automated water-blasters, to nets designed to tangle up a pirate boat's propeller, to rubber-bullet guns, to laser dazzlers, high-voltage fences, robo-boats, sonic blasters and "pain rays." The gCaptain blog provides not just one, but two top-ten lists of anti-piracy gadgets.

    The Defense Department's Joint Non-Lethal Weapons Program tested many of those gizmos late last year during an exercise at Yorktown Naval Weapons Station in Virginia, and reported that there was no single "magic bullet" for fending off potential intruders at sea. "We have found that multiple layers of non-lethal weapons contribute to the range of options available to naval forces in responding to potential threats and determining hostile intent," Capt. Barry Coceano, the Navy's lead for the non-lethal weapons program, was quoted as saying.

    These contraptions don't come cheap, either. De Monie estimated that it would cost about $20,000 to $30,000 per transit to carry the kind of sonic blaster used by a cruise ship's crew to fend off Somali pirates in 2005.

    The U.S. military isn't looking merely at non-lethal weapons to counter pirates (and terrorists, for that matter). Today, Wired's Danger Room blog reports on DARPA's efforts to develop "smart bullets" that would make Navy snipers' shots even more accurate.

    Looking beyond bigger guns
    But Colgate's Macdonald insists that better weapons won't provide the final solution for the pirate scourge. "You have to fix the problem on the land simultaneously," he told me. Macdonald said poverty, lawlessness and a lack of regional coordination were among the factors that made Southeast Asia the world's biggest hotbed of piracy several years ago - and those factors are behind Somalia's current piracy pandemic as well.

    The key to success for fighting Asia's pirates was to encourage a coordinated response by Singapore, Malasya and Indonesia - and Macdonald said a similar response will be required to fight Somalia's pirates. "Who's going to do that in Somalia, I don't know," he said.

    The Somali government is so weak that it's not a good candidate to lead the effort. Maybe the United Nations or the African Union could pull it off. But someone with a legitimate link to the region is going to have to take the lead in the anti-piracy effort, on land and sea, Macdonald said: "Or else, in my opinion, it's not going to work."

    Update for 3 p.m. ET April 14: Judging by the comments so far, a lot of you might not be all that interested in hearing how complex Somalia's piracy problem is. But if you want a deeper explanation of how the pirate economy works and "why the U.S. Navy can't win this fight," check out this posting to Foreign Policy magazine's Web site.
  7. BadUglyMagic is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/15/2009 3:28pm


     Style: slackerjitsu

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    Quote Originally Posted by joecos View Post
    MSNBC has a good write-up on the issue:
    "Separating the innocent fishermen from the pirates is going to be hard," Macdonald said.
    Wait, the fishermen are also boarding freighters with small arms and rocket launchers?
  8. DKJr is offline
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    Fasten your seat belts, and prepare for lift off

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    Posted On:
    4/15/2009 3:38pm

    supporting member
     Style: Combat Cuddling

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    Quote Originally Posted by BadUglyMagic View Post
    Wait, the fishermen are also boarding freighters with small arms and rocket launchers?
    Yeah but they are just after the sea bass and flounder.
  9. Matt Phillips is offline
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    4/15/2009 11:30pm

    supporting member
     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Yrkoon9 View Post
    I was reading about a Somali "response" to the rescue. It seems that a few of them decided to shoot mortar rounds at a congressman's plane. Yeah...shoot mortar rounds... at a plane.

    ...brilliant...

    I honestly hope **** gets totally out of hand there. I really hope they pull me out of Iraq for my last couple of months and send me there without our hands tied. Just lay waste to that whole fucking shithole. Forget about a humanitarian mission, a rebuilding process, and building democracy. What they need are a heaping helping of tanks, bombs, and death.
    Careful what you wish for. My best childhood friend got to do exactly this, and he ended up pinned down in Mogadishu for 24 hours with wounded men in his unit, and no evac. His unit had only 7 rounds between them when they finally got out.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
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  10. danno is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/16/2009 6:32pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    FRANCE WINS AGAIN

    ...pirates are being questioned by police in the northwestern French city of Rennes. French commandos seized them in an operation last Friday to rescue five French hostages on a boat in the Indian Ocean. Two pirates died during the rescue operation along with the boat's French skipper.
    http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-04-15-voa18.cfm
    Last edited by danno; 4/16/2009 6:36pm at .
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