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  1. GoldenJonas is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2009 11:40pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Shaolin is back.....

    Just got finished watching Shaolin's fight against Katsuhiko Nagata at the recent Dream 8.

    For those of you who do not get HD-Net Fights and were not able to see it, it is a MUST WATCH in my honest opinion.

    Shaolin is a 4 time Mundial Champ. However, so many times we see world championship level BJJ not translate so well into MMA. Then you have what Shaolin did to Nagata at Dream 8. A great masters class in BJJ control. I would say that were this Abu Dhabi, Shaolin would have been up probably 250-0 before the fight was stopped. Enjoy.

    jnp, feel free to move if not appropriate, but this is high level grappling at its best.

    [yt]duAoLOOls1s[/yt]

    YouTube - Dream 8: Vitor Ribeiro vs. Katsuhiko Nagata
  2. 1point2 is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/13/2009 12:14am

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     Style: 剛 and 柔

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hypothesis: Shaolin specifically intended to win the fight by decision and/or strikes, and not go for the submission. The way I saw it, he turned the old-school BJJ methodology on its head: instead of taking dominant position and going for the sub, he took dominant position and sat on it every which way, striking from each, transitioning from control to control and from pin to pin. Every inch of that strategy is aimed at not letting the opponent have any room to escape--not an almost-perfect armbar attempt, not a failed RNC (see Marcelo's MMA debut, bless him) that ends with them in your guard, not a Kimura that takes a minute to set up, nothing.

    I say that this is old-school BJJ mentality turned on its head because the old strategy, which the Gracies used to popularize BJJ, was to control and submit, control and submit, control and submit, with barely any striking. It took down all those karate, boxing, kungh fu, whatever-striking guys. Maybe a leg check or a jab to set up the shot, or a back-of-the-head slap to open their neck for RNCination, but strikes were seen as crude in their challenge matches and in the UFC.

    Yet, in their tapes, the Gracies made the point over and over again that dominant position was desirable for striking as well as chokes and locks. Shaolin took this philosophy (as it was correct the whole time) and said, "Why go for the sub? I can destroy him as humans have destroyed humans across the ages--pounce, pin, and crush from above." This match was the showpiece for that strategy--notice how he didn't even push for the back mount? He didn't want it! He wanted his opponent flat on their back, pinned and struck from multiple angles, with nowhere to go and no stalling like in Marcelo's match. He didn't want the choke or the armlock, he wanted the top position and the strikes that came with it.
  3. dokomoy is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/13/2009 3:23am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    For what it's worth Shaolin says he wanted the submission

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaolin
    I surely wanted the submission, but with this new rule I ended up in a position where I was well placed to use the knee. Now Iím going to incorporate the move into my game so it will be something I do all the time. I really liked the fight
    http://www.graciemag.com/news/144/AR...009-04-10.html
  4. GoldenJonas is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/13/2009 8:46am

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     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What I found phenomenally instructive and demonstrated perfectly by Shaolin in this match was hip control.

    He always had control of Nagata's hips and kept on him like an anaconda timing his transitions perfectly as Nagata would relax after an effort to reposition or escape. Other than him pulling butterfly (it looked like he was briefly looking for X and then abandoned for half-guard when Nagata sprawled and whizzered) nothing he did was flashy or risky, just basic sound positioning and control. The way in which he was performing the basic techniques, however, WAS advanced. For example, 1) watch the way in which he switches his hips to maintain maximum leverage when transitioning, 2) even though Nagata seems to recover half-guard a few times, Shaolin never allows the guard to go past his knee, and 3) there is no space in ANY transition unless Shaolin opens it up for a reason.

    Shaolin's butterfly guard was perfect, notice when he was sitting up he in it he had an angle looking for the sweep; even when in half-guard he was always on a hip and never flat. Nagata, on the other hand, kept the whizzer WAAAAAY too long and it resulted in him being countered, reversed, and dominated for the remainder of the time.

    Great, great clinic for BJJ in MMA.
  5. v1y is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/13/2009 9:41am


     Style: Internet Warrior, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    two reasons my instructor would love this fight:

    1: tons of knee on belly, which is rarely seen in mma.
    2: switching the staple. you see it a lot where guys staple the nearside arm in side control with their head side leg, but shaolin was then switching the staple to the other leg -- something my instructor always talks about but i'd never seen done in mma before.
  6. zapatismo is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/14/2009 6:45pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: mt and sub grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    excellent fight, shaolin has crazy ground skills. i kinda feel bad for nagata beiing that he is never given a easy fight and in this one he was fucked the second it hit the ground.
    that was crazy as soon as nagata sat up his head started spurting like a fountin.
  7. 1point2 is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/03/2009 1:09pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 剛 and 柔

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates
  8. Kokujin is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/03/2009 3:30pm


     Style: BJJ(blue)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is something that I like to preach around my school...why cant we strike from dominant position in a mma match and try and go for a sub that actually might be riskier because of bad position, sweat and blood?

    I think this is one of the fights were I saw him more relentless and almost looking like he wanted to prove a point. Probably some bad word between the two of them. I'll look into it

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