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  1. cyrijl is offline
    cyrijl's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    4/15/2009 9:55am

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     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintanon View Post
    Belt choking? Are you fucking kidding me? What competition is that legal in? Cause you sure as **** can't do it at NAGA, or the Pan Ams, or any other competition I've ever heard of or seen. But I'll start tying one end of my belt into a noose if we can do that ****....
    That school sounds like it's full of pussies. No bicep splicers? DQs because you don't know WTF you just got owned by? DQs for backing out of guard? What kind of pussified organization is this? Send those pussies to NAGA where beginner NO-GI guys will neck crank them senseless.... Points? We don't need no fucking points. We're here to sub people. This ain't wrestling.
    That's how I feel, and as War Wheel can testify, it's not like I am the toughest guy in the world. But they have the aggression and drive to win that I need help on. I just wish it was tempered with more "ju" and less "crush"
    There is no cheating, there is only jiu-jitsu.
  2. Kintanon is offline
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    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Posted On:
    4/15/2009 10:21am

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     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Meh, aggression and a drive to win aren't necessarily inextricably linked. I have very little "Aggression" but a HUGE drive to win. I like to win via trickery, misdirection, and being more clever than the next guy. My whole game is built around baiting people and trapping them. Sometimes it backfires, sometimes it works great, but it's getting better and better.
    If you aren't naturally aggro then it's probably going to be more productive for you to develop your game based on your current level of aggressiveness instead of trying to get MORE AGGRO RAWR!!!
    Also, remember there is a difference between Aggressive and HULK SMASH!!!! Looking at it one way I'm very aggressive as I'm constantly trying to work a sub or a sweep, I'm never passive (unless I'm being smothered under some 250lber), but I'm of course too small to hulk smash anyone.
    To get to my point, I think you are looking in the wrong direction for aggressiveness.
    Pulling guard can be aggressive if done with authority and with an eye to immediately sweep or sub. I do it all the time when I run into someone I feel is weak on top, or is likely to get a takedown on me. Being aggressive is about making the other person play your game and react to your techniques. That doesn't mean you have to trying to destroy them with your superior might. Being on top also doesn't equal aggressive. Plenty of wrestlers are passive as **** on top. They get side control and lay there waiting for time to run out. That's not aggressive.

    I suggest rethinking what kind of "Aggression" you feel like your game is lacking and see if this school is really helping you improve or not. Because frankly, I don't think they are.
  3. cyrijl is offline
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    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    4/15/2009 10:28am

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     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't think we disagree. I basically need to learn how to deal with more aggressive opponents who are willing to just stall. I just think there is a lack of terminology.
    There is no cheating, there is only jiu-jitsu.
  4. Matt Phillips is offline
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    4/15/2009 10:31am

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     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by cyrijl View Post
    as War Wheel can testify, it's not like I am the toughest guy in the world.
    I'm hardly in a position to judge grappling ability, but I have been spanked by blue belts before, and you seem to be a bit more advanced (and composed) than they are. Hell, I even posted a hand on your face with most of my (considerable) weight on it and you didn't react at all. I'm starting to think I wasted my time getting a BB in n00bspaz-jutsu.

    I think you're plenty tough.
    Last edited by Matt Phillips; 4/15/2009 10:36am at .
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

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    Luta Livre flees the fight,
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  5. Kintanon is offline
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    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Posted On:
    4/15/2009 11:01am

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     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, if you're looking to get better at handling other people who are RAWR AGGRO on top then this might be the place for you. BUT, you might have to stick around after class and grab someone to roll. Tell them you want to work on your guard and let them try to smash through you. If the class focus isn't giving you what you need then you have to go and get it.
  6. chingythingy is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    4/15/2009 11:13am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by cyrijl View Post
    I don't think we disagree. I basically need to learn how to deal with more aggressive opponents who are willing to just stall. I just think there is a lack of terminology.
    It sounds like that school has in general a predominate top game. I've noticed this - many times its from the instructor on down. If I had to guess the typical game from the feet is takedown 2 points then stall in guard or half guard. Or aggro wrestle from knees and the same.

    I'd rather go for a more aggressive sub related game in general - it teaches what to do when you miss subs and how to recover position. But to me "aggressiveness" wasn't really a spaz out adjustment - for a long time I just couldn't think what to do next, or it took too long and my opponent reacted first. At blue, learning to chain attacks and defense attack together is the next level of progression towards purple. And no matter what level, adding a new attack to your arsenal requires time training it in tandem with what you've got now.

    For this school, there's no easy answer. Your guard passes, half guard passes, and attacks from the guard including sweeps are going to have to get better to deal with a stalling opponent. There is definitely a fundamental BJJ answer and progression for all of these things that work. It's just developing the little things - grips, angle adjustment, progression, etc. that's hard. Against a stalling game, one misstep and you've lost it, so it has to be fundamentally better. Ask the instructor to break down the techniques and learn the little details better - that always takes time and development.

    Don't give up and start stalling. Don't worry about the tap in training. Work your game, and don't worry about it - you'll eventually pass up the lay n prayers.
  7. chingythingy is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/15/2009 11:17am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintanon View Post
    Well, if you're looking to get better at handling other people who are RAWR AGGRO on top then this might be the place for you. BUT, you might have to stick around after class and grab someone to roll. Tell them you want to work on your guard and let them try to smash through you. If the class focus isn't giving you what you need then you have to go and get it.
    There's always a way to handle aggression. Like surfing you keep your fundamental postures good and ride the wave, then make them pay when they gas.

    Someone playing the smash pass game - you have to get better at fundamental movements - diagonal shrimp, shrimp, hip heist, etc. to deal with it. Changing the angle and adding space solve a lot of problems.
  8. Kintanon is offline
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    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Posted On:
    4/15/2009 11:19am

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     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sure, but if in class every time his back hits the ground he "loses" and the drill restarts then he never gets to work on that part. It's all focused on being the top guy instead of dealing with the top guy. He will never get to work those fundamentals unless he goes outside of the class criteria to find them.
  9. chingythingy is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/15/2009 11:26am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintanon View Post
    Sure, but if in class every time his back hits the ground he "loses" and the drill restarts then he never gets to work on that part. It's all focused on being the top guy instead of dealing with the top guy. He will never get to work those fundamentals unless he goes outside of the class criteria to find them.
    I'm sure that's just a specific drill. Or how they work rounds from the feet in that specific drill. Drills teach you one thing. Maybe their tournament training approach is not to pull guard - it could leave you down 2 points based on the ref. That's fine. You can work takedown defense to get good enough so a good wrestler won't put you on your back.
  10. Kintanon is offline
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    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Posted On:
    4/15/2009 11:32am

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     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you want to get good enough so that a good wrestler won't put you on your back then you need to be working takedowns and takedown defense every class for at least 20 minutes, and you need to be starting a lot of matches from standing. No way are you going to catch up to a good wrestlers 4-8 years of takedown MASTERY by 20 minutes of takedown work every 2 weeks and grappling from your knees.
    And from everything Cyrijl has said it looks like almost all of the drills at the school are top focused, which won't help him develop the things he wants to develop.
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