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  1. DSL is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2009 3:28pm


     Style: MMA, BJJ, CMD, TKD, FMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KidSpatula View Post
    I'm confused... at 1:10 in the video I don't see anything happening that looks anything like "rolling with punches", he's just ambling forward while slipping some weak jabs.

    James Tony does a lot of slipping and a fair bit of leaning back to avoid punches, maybe I'm just mistaken about what rolling with a punch means. If by rolling with the punch we're just talking about evading punches entirely then yeah rolling with punches is great.

    ps, I love James Tony. Infighting and counter punching is such a beautiful thing :)
    I was wondering the same thing, I think the OP is confusing slipping/evasion with 'rolling with punches'.

    Slipping and such works great in boxing/kickboxing, but in MMA you do have to be wary of takedowns/heel picks etc. I still use it a lot, but I'm always keeping an eye out for the level change/shot when I'm bobbing and weaving heh.

    As far as tensing with a body shot, sure, mostly. Although it's tough to tense the solar plexus, or the liver. I tried to tense my floating rib the other day... :merror:
  2. Vieux Normand is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2009 4:47pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 血鷲

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    Quote Originally Posted by KidSpatula View Post
    so I guess the "solid object wrapped in gel" thing was referring to being fat
    Seems so.

    Eat lots, but also do lots of core work.

    Well...um...when I was in Japan and saw Sumo, most rikishi were like that: working out from 2:30 AM to 10:30 AM non-stop (throwing each other around and slamming their hands--with body-weight behind them--into hardwood pillars, as well as charging up and down stairs, stretching and doing freeweights).

    Then, from 10:30 AM to 12:30 or 1 PM, it was food, food and more food. If you ever see a match (I mean O-Sumo, not amateur), you'll see, watching them strain against each other, that most of them have arms and legs that are very big, but not very flabby-looking. Lots of big guts, though. Even then, if one of them coughs or clears his throat, you'll see some pretty defined abs under the cushion.

    They define rank strictly on win-loss records...and there's no mention whatsoever of "voluntary control of internal muscles" in their training.
  3. Whathappened is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2009 5:50pm


     Style: Wing Chun Kuen

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hesperus View Post
    I'm referring to the whole making the lame walk and the blind see via mumbo jumbo.
    Google-fu, you must improve it.

    20-year controlled study of the anti-aging effects of qigong on 204 hypertensive patients



    Blood pressure, ergo internal organs.
    d. Improvement in sex hormone levels

    Finally,
    These preliminary results show that internal qigong practice can make significant changes in the therapeutic balancing of the meridian and organ systems.
  4. Hesperus is offline
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    it's all vanity

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2009 9:58pm

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     Style: Kano-Gracie

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Whathappened View Post
    still retarded
    No...

    Quote Originally Posted by Whathappened View Post
    1. dislocated collarbone that refused to sit in its socket; Doctors assessment, permanent.
    2. dislocated ligament in the index finger of left knuckle. Doctors recommended surgery;
    3. severe lower back pain; Surgery.
  5. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    4/09/2009 9:25am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Guys take the Qigong efficacy argument somewhere else. This is the STRIKING forum.
  6. Whathappened is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/09/2009 1:23pm


     Style: Wing Chun Kuen

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    @Whiteshark:
    Thanks for bringing back ontopic.

    also, a day in a life of a Sumo, they do these drills 4-5 hours a day. Everyday.
    YouTube - Sumo workout
    Given their average weight of 148KG or 325lbs , their tackle can knock most men out.

    They learned to absorb blows without relying on muscle tension as part of their training. Tensing up just uses up too much stamina. See 2:41, and observe the amount of shock their bodies absorb in one tackle, as its double the force of their mass + opponent's mass. Tensing up causes a "bounce", meaning being knocked back, increased chance to go off balance, and no chance to grip on the opponent's mawashi.

    Also, 5:23, having a 325lbs sumo fall on me... Do not want.
    YouTube - Julien Buratto - Nagoya Basho 2007 - Eurosport Italy


    Good thing they have glass jaws.:toothy9:
  7. Torakaka is offline
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    Do you eat breakfast?

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    Posted On:
    4/09/2009 3:25pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kitty Pow Pow!!!

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sumo wrestlers slamming into each other has basically nothing to do with taking a punch. Two totally different types of impact in two totally different contexts.
    Ranked #9 internationally at 118lbs by WIKBA http://www.womenkickboxing.com/wikba...rch%202009.htm
  8. Vieux Normand is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/09/2009 3:32pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 血鷲

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KidSpatula View Post
    Sumo wrestlers slamming into each other has basically nothing to do with taking a punch. Two totally different types of impact in two totally different contexts.
    Blame me for bringing that up.

    It wasn't intended to address anything except the comment about, um, "solid...wrapped...in...gel"...

    ...aw, forget it.
  9. Hesperus is offline
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    it's all vanity

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    Posted On:
    4/09/2009 4:37pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kano-Gracie

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ...it takes too much stamina to flex their muscles? Isn't the average sumo match less than fifteen seconds?

    He makes less and less sense as this thread goes on.
  10. Vieux Normand is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/10/2009 1:13pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 血鷲

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Whathappened
    They learned to absorb blows without relying on muscle tension as part of their training. Tensing up just uses up too much stamina. See 2:41, and observe the amount of shock their bodies absorb in one tackle, as its double the force of their mass + opponent's mass. Tensing up causes a "bounce", meaning being knocked back, increased chance to go off balance, and no chance to grip on the opponent's mawashi.
    Okay,

    Mods, I'm the one who brought the Sumo into this, so the appearance of the above mess is partially my fault, and I have to do something to clean it up. Given the thread topic, feel free to Trollistan it, but I just couldn't let it go without one more reply.

    WH, how many Sumo Beya (gyms) have you actually been to? In my years of living in Japan, I went to several. Do Rikishi hit each other in all sorts of ways? Sure: open-handed slams to the head, throat or body with the same body-torque mechanical principles used in other striking arts. Mutual head-butting or shoulder-slamming initial charges, also with full weight behind them. Throws leading to hard landings on the Dohyo's dried-clay surface (no, it isn't like a mat, it's more like landing on cement) or onto the tiled floor below the ring.

    How is their musculature when they fight? With the exception of rolling breakfalls, it's at maximum tension. These are short contests specifically because it's so easy to lose a bout. Any skeletal muscles they use during a bout are at 100% motor-unit activation. They have no time to do any "internal" whatever or "relax" anything. Their rank (and therefore their salaries, AKA their livelihoods) are strictly based on their win-loss record. They have no time for mumbo-jumbo, no place for anything but biomechanical applications of physics.

    What looks like "relaxing when taking a shot" comes from the layer of adipose most of them have over their considerable abs (and abs are not "internal muscles", they're skeletal muscles), which exists to cushion landings on the aforementioned concrete-like surface, and also to lower their centre of gravity, making them harder to throw but allowing them to more readily get their C. of G. below their opponent's C. of G. in order to execute a throw.

    Again, no BS "internal" anything, no Chinese mysticism (which makes sense, since there's nothing Chinese about Sumo). It's just applied physics.

    That's it for me, Mods. No more derail.
    Last edited by Vieux Normand; 4/10/2009 1:15pm at .
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