Posted On:4/01/2009 11:17pm
Style: TKD, judo, MT noob
this is roy jones jr gaurd
I see no face hugging....
Posted On:4/02/2009 12:04am
Style: wing chun
Originally Posted by henshinx
burmese boxers keep a close guard better some protection then non at all http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak0PVifBaoA
There seems to be a conspicuous lack of the jab for distancing.
Last edited by 8bit; 4/02/2009 12:06am at .
Posted On:4/02/2009 4:52am
Originally Posted by mike321
From the article: "Today, bare-knuckle boxers from the back-roads of Ireland to the stadiums of Burkina Faso shape up pretty much the same way. So why do they do it?"
Can anyone verify this? Do modern bare knuckle guys fight like he describes?
Depends on the rules (or, at least, conventions) governing the match.
Irish BKB fighters range from basically untrained sloggers to some pretty handy boyos, although the guys with skillz are trained in modern boxing and tend to stick to what they know during their fights. Their hands and arms do fare worse than do those of glove fighters, but equally, the don't normally spend as much time infighting as do glove fighters.
I'm not familiar with boxing in Burkina Faso, but other African nations do still hold traditional BKB matches and yes, they tend to feature extended guards and less infighting than do gloved matches. The main technical difference is that a number of African boxing styles allow tackles and leg pickup throws, which were not allowed under the bare-knuckle rules of the London Prize Ring, and which affects fighting stances, etc.
Plenty of vids of both Irish and African bare-knuckle fights on YouTube, if you're interested.
Check out the Bullshido.net Western Martial Arts Forum for all things Western, martial and arty.
Bartitsu: the Gentlemanly Art of Self Defence (est. 1899)
Posted On:4/02/2009 4:53am
Guys, to be strictly fair, the author of the "boxing guard critique" article didn't say that all boxers always use the tight guard, he was just pointing out the disadvantages of that particular guard in a bare knuckle fight.
Gnarly King of Half-Guard
Posted On:4/02/2009 5:01am
Originally Posted by G-G-G Ghost!
* Take punches to his hands and forearm; something that would deaden the muscles and break the carpal bones if done without gloves
Works both ways, ever punched someone in the elbow?
Posted On:4/02/2009 7:58am
Style: submission grappling
To make this a little more interesting, what about applying the OP's original premise to MMA fights. This is probably closer to BKB than modern boxing. The small open fingered gloves, being able to grab and trow and the use of the clinch. How close do you think the MMA striking techniques and styles match that of BKB?
Posted On:4/02/2009 8:10am
[quote=DdlR;2093618] but other African nations do still hold traditional BKB matches and yes, they tend to feature extended guards and less infighting than do gloved matches. The main technical difference is that a number of African boxing styles allow tackles and leg pickup throws, which were not allowed under the bare-knuckle rules of the London Prize Ring, and which affects fighting stances, etc.[quote]
when you say traditional do you mean Dambe? becasue the rules seriously affect their fighting stances too, in that they gotta punch with one hand. although even though it is without boxing glove there is still alot of infighting.
i failed at quoting
NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT
Posted On:4/02/2009 8:31am
Style: Novice Sub Grappler
Early Muaythai had similar hand positioning:
I've never seen a BKTB match from back in the day, but I'm guessing that it was slanted towards elbows over fists.
Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie
KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao
In De Janerio, in blackest night,
Luta Livre flees the fight,
Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
Posted On:4/02/2009 11:54am
Style: aikido, medieval fencing
Come on lads you should know better.
Yes it is a slanted article but do we have to take it all, worm, hook, line and sinker?
As DldR pointed out; this article does points out the disadvantage of such “guard” when using unprotected hands.
Calling it guard is misleading but there is no denying that boxers use that or a crossed guard to block incoming blow.
Did the use of gloves, the generous groin protector changed and influenced boxing?
Of course it did.
Did the way you can parry/block changed and influenced boxing?
Of course it did
Have a look at Mendoza boxing manual and you see what boxing was in the late 1700.
that being said
This is the same specious arguments used to say that an straight handed punch is better than a modern punch (with a wrist twist) with closed fist because you can break a phalange, usually taking the old bare-knuckle fighter as an example and eraly 20th cent SD manuals.
Yes, it is true that if you go even 10 moderns round without hand wraps and glove. You are likely to break a bone of your hand or at the very least to hurt your hand enough that it will decrease its use as a weapon. So if you knot the fight is going to be over 50 rounds, you better strike without a twist and only when sure of you are going to hit.
Now we all have been in first fight and most of use did not break their hands, beside this is the way some traditional karate strike.
So even though it is true, it does not matter that much.
If you do sport your will have pad and or wrap, if it is SD it will not last 10 rounds and if you do historical pugilism, you will do as they did.
Basically nice to know, but not that relevant.
The bit that does not really make sense is the potential tactical “weakness”
There is no difference with trying to hitting a boxer close guard or his head. The boxer can still counter jab, wave and bob or deflect with his guard. (ie turn the blow into a graze.
Since for a boxer, blocking is not really the first port of call unless under severe pressure. It is a nice to know but not that relevant.
When I Get Back
Posted On:4/02/2009 12:24pm
Let us apply this to the famed Kronk Gym fighters.
Trainer Emmanuel Stewart taught his fighters the "Kronk Stance" or "Kronk Style" or "Kronk Guard" which preached a low left hand, to utilize high and low jabbing
and relied head movement, slipping, bobbing and weaving. This also made them eat right hands.
and of course:
(I know that isn't a right hand...but still, it's Hagler/Hearns, c'mon)
Of course, usually the Kronk fighters had a certain style and body type, staying to the outside, circling, jabbing and working a distance, but still:
Not much head hugging pillow-gloved picking off.
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