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  1. Jim_Jude is offline
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    Shime Waza Test Dummy

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    Posted On:
    3/31/2009 3:45pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: StrikeyGrappling & WW2-fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JP View Post
    Jim, I'm asking you as an internet buddy, (whatever weight that carries) just please let that one go?

    Please? We don't really need to have a discussion about rapacious crusaders do we?
    Hahaha!!! yeah, I can let it go. lol
    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
    ~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

    "Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
    ~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney
  2. JP is offline
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    It's all about the clinch. The clinch, I said.

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    Posted On:
    3/31/2009 3:54pm

    supporting member
     Style: SAMBO, mma, jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_Jude View Post
    Hahaha!!! yeah, I can let it go. lol
    Thanks. This threads gonna get enough idiocy as it is.
    Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
    and remember what peace there may be in silence.
    As far as possible, without surrender,
    be on good terms with all persons.
    Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
    and listen to others,
    even to the dull and ignorant;
    they too have their story.

    -excerpt of the poem called "Desiderata," by Max Ehrman, 1927.
  3. TheMightyMcClaw is offline
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    MADE OF STEEL!

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    Posted On:
    3/31/2009 3:56pm

    supporting member
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_Jude View Post
    There you go. See the point? :love5:
    So why don't you show me some?
  4. TheMightyMcClaw is offline
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    MADE OF STEEL!

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    Posted On:
    3/31/2009 4:00pm

    supporting member
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmywangyu View Post
    I personally have not witnessed any cult followings of Silat or anything for that matter (well I am North American).
    I have. And so have two other people on this thread.
    I daresay that indicates a trend.

    I will however say, that Silat is useful, and works, and its a probability that it just has never been filmed in real combat or sports combat situation. Another probability is it was being used in the cage, and not noticed at all.
    Hey, remember the part of this thread where I was looking for documented evidence, and not empty conjecture about ultra-killer Silat that none have seen?
    I do.
  5. JP is offline
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    It's all about the clinch. The clinch, I said.

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    Posted On:
    3/31/2009 4:04pm

    supporting member
     Style: SAMBO, mma, jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw View Post
    I have. And so have two other people on this thread.
    I daresay that indicates a trend.
    It's far past trend. But it's just a more harmful version of all that sinophile **** that makes white guys insist on japanese being spoken in their dojos.

    It's not supernatural. But don't tell the boys with the magic knives. See? I've already said too much.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw View Post
    Hey, remember the part of this thread where I was looking for documented evidence, and not empty conjecture about ultra-killer Silat that none have seen?
    I do.
    There's not any. I think Jim, myself and others gave a pretty good explanation of why that's not likely to happen. The effective stuff won't look any different that other good fighting. The idiot mandancers have given everybody this weird impression that fighting is supposed to look like something other than fighting and it won't.

    I'm not saying you'd have seen it an not known. You likely haven't.

    **** man, I haven't really either. And I was in the thick of weirdoland.
    Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
    and remember what peace there may be in silence.
    As far as possible, without surrender,
    be on good terms with all persons.
    Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
    and listen to others,
    even to the dull and ignorant;
    they too have their story.

    -excerpt of the poem called "Desiderata," by Max Ehrman, 1927.
  6. 1point2 is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    3/31/2009 4:08pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 剛 and 柔

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JP View Post
    The idiot mandancers have given everybody this weird impression that fighting is supposed to look like something other than fighting and it won't.
    This, a thousand times.

    Kung fu, Chun, Silat, Isshinryu, it doesn't matter. All sorts of people start believing that their style beats fighting because it doesn't look like rough and tumble fights. But they can't avoid the fact that real fighting looks like real fighting, and no amount of talent or showmanship can stop that truth. Even smart people get tricked by this.
  7. JP is offline
    JP's Avatar

    It's all about the clinch. The clinch, I said.

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    Posted On:
    3/31/2009 4:13pm

    supporting member
     Style: SAMBO, mma, jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2 View Post
    Even smart people get tricked by this.
    Raises hand.

    "Hi, my name is JP and I'm a former mandancer."

    And not in the, stick dollar bills in my drawers kind.
    Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
    and remember what peace there may be in silence.
    As far as possible, without surrender,
    be on good terms with all persons.
    Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
    and listen to others,
    even to the dull and ignorant;
    they too have their story.

    -excerpt of the poem called "Desiderata," by Max Ehrman, 1927.
  8. Killing Moon is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    3/31/2009 4:51pm


     Style: Chinese Martial Arts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_Jude View Post
    Actually, your post peaked my interest.



    What you want to see is Silat applied by a fighter. Where the **** do you expect to see "people actually fighting"? I suppose you want to see "Silat" in MMA, huh? Stupid. That's like saying you want to see Kung Fu in MMA. We've see it, when Cung Le kicked the **** out of Frank Shamrock. Did it resemble what you think is kung fu? Could you, with your trained eye, see the subtleties in his movements? Could you see the traditional Kung Fu influence in his display of Sanshou when he broke Frank Shamrock's arm with a kick?

    .
    Uh, I’ll have to interject here and say, “yes”.

    I think the general perception that your style moving Live has to look like the forms is pretty ridiculous, to say the least. There are concepts and methods within forms, yes. But that doesn’t mean it has to look like the forms themselves.

    A good example of this on the Karate sides are Lyoto and Andy Hug. Both are from Karate backgrounds and both display the trademark attributes when fighting. Neither of which totally and completely ape the forms that they’re familiar with.

    What gives styles their “flavor” is the strategies and habits that come with them. And on the better spectrum, the strategies and habits derived from sparring.

    Cung always displays a strong amount of trademark attributes of CMAs in his Sanshou. From the way he side thrusts to push away, his Scissor takedowns, the throwing habits that are trademarks of Kuai Jiao and even his kicking variations. Hell, the Catch to Sweep throw that he used on Frank was very indicative of typical Sanshou fighters from CMAs backgrounds.

    Your argument doesn’t make much sense, really.
  9. selfcritical is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    3/31/2009 5:08pm


     Style: Pekiti, ARMA, other stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_Jude View Post
    Are you really comparing current Christian doctrine to that of the Knights Templar?
    He was referencing a recent thread where an austin BJJ instructor is supposed to be in a local templar group- ie, point toward BJJ people who might be in scary cults (to my knowledge they actually mostly do charity work).
  10. Shiningwolf is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/31/2009 5:08pm


     Style: San Shou, MT, & No-Gi BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I do believe Silat works, my dad and uncle used to spar Silat guys way back when, but since you don't wan anecdotes i won't get into that.

    My dad also told me (before i started getting into MA stuff) that 95% of people that start martial arts end up wasting their time because they don't practice or are just idiots that suck. Now taking an art thats had a lot of time to get watered down, you'd think it'll be even HARDER for good Silat person to come out of the barrel.

    I mean hell, look at all those Shotokan guys that got their **** kicked in MMA, then all of the the Shotokan guys who get their **** kicked in just normal, local sparring. So by that logic Shotokan would be completely useless, but there's also that ONE person (or more) in any style that manages to apply it and make it work (like Lyoto in my Shotokan example).

    All in all, it depends on the practitioner, just like ANY other style. BJJ probably has shitty people, and Silat probably has some good ones. The difference between the two is just the ratio of how many people suck and how many that don't.

    I'm gonna exclude Neo-ninja-ness (Bujinkan) from this though, i'm sorry but no. Even Aikido has it's usefulness against extremely drunk dumbasses.
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