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  1. BJMills is online now

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2012 5:35pm


     Style: Muay Thai/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    To me,
    Machida being used as an example of Shotokan.
    Is the same as
    A LeMans Corvette being used as an example of a Corvette
    or
    A WRC Impreza being an example of an STI
    I'm not disagreeing. My point is more, that there is a karate influence to the way he fights. His stances and footwork, his use of range, how he holds his hands, and how he strikes. I mean, for the love of god, even money says Pat Morita rolled over in his grave when Machida crane kicked Couture ;-)

    All of the things he does I would have dismissed as not working at all, except he does them.

    Further, I recall a friend of mine who used to compete in full contact karate (years before the UFC) talked about fighting in tournaments in South America against some increadibly tough guys, where there was no rule against excessive contact and knockouts were a lot more frequent.

    IIRC Joe Rogan made a reference to similar tournaments when he was talking about Machida's standup at one point a couple of years ago. So I am open minded to the idea of other karate guys out there having a reliable standup game. Machida also has Sumo (to which he credits his takedown defense) and a BJJ blackbelt so I'm not saying his record or skills are 100% due to karate. Just that he is an example that at an elite level a karate stand up game can be effective. In fact, to date he is the only guy who has had zero problem with Jon Jones' leg kicks and I think that is a result of his stance and foootwork.

    So yes, Machida is the LeMans Corevette, but that style can actually build LeMans Corevettes.

    Sliat on the other hand seems to employ a lot of trapping and 'structure breaking' that I don't acutally think anyone can apply in a pressure situation. Same with Aikido, Wing Chun, or Ninjutsu. The training techniques they employ are- I think- counter productive to performing in a pressure situation.
  2. bakuma is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2012 7:17pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BJMills View Post
    Also, to go back to the MMA video, all of the Silat I've seen incorporates intercepting and/or trapping attacks in their stand up. Much like the hand exchanges in the video you just posted. But none of that was apparent in the cage.

    So the point would be, if you don't actually use it when fighting, why train it at all? And if you do happen to be able to use it in a pressure environment I'd like to see an example of that, because the examples we've seen are not that.
    Doesn't this look like that trapping attacks?
  3. BJMills is online now

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2012 7:38pm


     Style: Muay Thai/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bakuma View Post
    Doesn't this look like that trapping attacks?
    Not really. I didn't see any trapping. I didn't see any BJJ from that 'BJJ guy' either.
  4. Chili Pepper is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/04/2012 8:35pm


     Style: Siling Labuyo Arnis

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BJMills View Post
    Not really. I didn't see any trapping. I didn't see any BJJ from that 'BJJ guy' either.
    Looks like the same crappy "double leg" I used to do back when UFC 1 came out and I was practicing shaolin kung fu.
  5. BJMills is online now

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    Posted On:
    10/05/2012 12:56am


     Style: Muay Thai/Wrestling

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I love the bjj trope. Every jackass who shoots a crappy double then gets his ass kicked is a bjj guy.

    It has replaced the 'muay thai' guy who can't properly turn his hip over while throwing a round kick and gets his ass handed to him by wing Chun chain punches or whatever silliness the style posting the video happens to employ.

    Never seems to happen in a sanctioned fight... Oddly enough.
  6. bakuma is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/05/2012 2:06am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BJMills View Post
    Not really. I didn't see any trapping. I didn't see any BJJ from that 'BJJ guy' either.
    Is this trapping?
  7. BJMills is online now

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    Posted On:
    10/05/2012 2:57am


     Style: Muay Thai/Wrestling

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bakuma View Post
    Is this trapping?
    More like slapping. With the occasional school yard headlock takedown followed by some no existant ground work. Notice how- every time it went to the ground- the guy on the bottom had no idea how to escape or improve his position even though the guy on top didn't have a solid base to control from.

    Also- the fight with with the dude in the white t-shirt and the fat guy (2nd to last fight I think) every time white t-shirt decided to stop dancing and just clinch, there wasn't much fat dude could do about it.

    Which goes back to the original point, why bother spending most of your time training intricate hand and foot maneuvers when some guy can neutralize it just by running in and grabbing you in a headlock?

    God forbid one of those guys fights someone with a couple of years of high school wrestling... or maybe a reall BJJ guy as opposed to someone who the video claims to be a BJJ guy but demonstrates absolutely no evidence of being one.
  8. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/05/2012 3:11am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    -1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is pretty much what I saw when I watched that video
  9. bakuma is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/05/2012 5:16am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BJMills View Post
    Which goes back to the original point, why bother spending most of your time training intricate hand and foot maneuvers when some guy can neutralize it just by running in and grabbing you in a headlock?

    God forbid one of those guys fights someone with a couple of years of high school wrestling... or maybe a reall BJJ guy as opposed to someone who the video claims to be a BJJ guy but demonstrates absolutely no evidence of being one.
    I agree, turns out some basic punching, kicking, sprawling, hammerfisting is enough to neutralize **BEEP** guy.
  10. Lebell is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/05/2012 6:27am

    supporting member
     

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bakuma View Post
    Philippines was Spanish colony for 3 centuries.
    China never colonized.
    Uhm..yeah they were.

    The awareness to unify under one nation just begun at early 1900, and after WWII the new nation Indonesia finally kicked Dutch out of their country.
    uhm no.
    They revolted like the cowards they were right after wwII, they massacred thousands of unarmed men women and children.
    the dutch came with an army and kicked the **** outta em.
    something the americans couldnt do with vietnam, indonesia is about ten times its size.
    then through the un embargo's holland was pressured to let em go.
    they didnt get kicked out, military they were defeated by the dutch, but politically they won.

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