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  1. bakuma is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2012 2:57pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BJMills View Post
    My point is simply that the techniques he employed in the cage don't look anything like any Silat I've ever seen. And yes I have seen a bit. I was around when Dan Inosanto was going through his Silat phase and introducing Paul Dethours to. Gave it a try. As someone who was competing in Muay Thai at the time it wasn't my thing.

    I never saw anything that resembled a sprawl in silat. Or repeated hammer fists. So if you're posting that as an example of effective Silat I'd love to see some evidence that such things are trained in silat, because if not then the video is more a demonstration of someone from a TMA background having to abandon his TMA techniques in favor of something more pressure tested in order to actually fight.
    A bit of sprawling and some hammerfists (?)
  2. TheMightyMcClaw is offline
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    MADE OF STEEL!

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2012 3:03pm

    supporting member
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bakuma View Post
    A bit of sprawling and some hammerfists (?)
    Was that a traditional Silat sumi gaeshi and arm triangle?
    The fool thinks himself immortal,
    If he hold back from battle;
    But old age will grant him no truce,
    Even if spears spare him.
  3. BJMills is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2012 3:29pm


     Style: Muay Thai/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw View Post
    Was that a traditional Silat sumi gaeshi and arm triangle?

    That and the sukui nage I had not seen anything in Silat remotely resembling before.

    Perhaps Jigoro Kano secretly studied in the jungles of Indonesia?

    All joking aside are there Silat juros that have these techniques in them? I would be surprised, but it wouldn't be the first time.

    Also, didn't see any sprawl and hammer fisting going on there. His semi sprawl was to step back and sink a knee, which would get you single legged against someone who knows what they are doing. Which is not what the guy in the cage did, his was a classic wrestling sprawl.
  4. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/04/2012 4:06pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    **** all this debate about the one freaking video.
    Fine I will give you this ONE guy. I mean seriously that is the best you can come up with?
    I can show 100s maybe even 1000s of videos of each one of these
    Full Contact
    Knock Down Karate
    Judo
    BJJ
    SAMBO
    Dog Brothers/FMA
    MMA
    Wrestling
    MT

    Also to note what was on that video wasn't "BJJ".
    Constantly failing to shoot for a leg isn't the BJJ.
    Its like everyone one who does one of these BJJ vs Video where the "BJJ" guy loses is some idiot piss poorly shooting for the legs.
    BJJ contains just a few more takedowns then just rummaging around for the legs.
    I am not surprising he got his ass beat, it wasn't even really sprawling that did the trick.
    Watch it again those are not good clean sprawls to stop a charging wrestler those where oh a guy is under me let me just drop my weight down something most people could do instinctual nothing that requires the timing developed through training.

    In closing ONE video of some guy beating a complete noob of any art proves no point about anything.
  5. ashkelon is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2012 4:23pm


     Style: Striking, grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lebell View Post
    I understand americans know preciously little about the outside world, so lemme tell you...
    Indonesia was most of its existance a colony..of....the dutch.
    They were bitches of the dutch!
    The least heroic people of europe!
    owned by the friggin dutch....
    Now can you believe if pencak silat really worked they wouldnt have kicked those invaders out?!
    No, they stayed our bitches for over almost 4 centuries!
    Now I just see copies of the 'reem kickboxing the **** out of all these Indonesians.
    Then I figure he's black, so something's going on here.
    Last edited by ashkelon; 10/04/2012 4:37pm at .
  6. bakuma is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2012 4:41pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BJMills View Post
    That and the sukui nage I had not seen anything in Silat remotely resembling before.

    Perhaps Jigoro Kano secretly studied in the jungles of Indonesia?

    All joking aside are there Silat juros that have these techniques in them? I would be surprised, but it wouldn't be the first time.

    Also, didn't see any sprawl and hammer fisting going on there. His semi sprawl was to step back and sink a knee, which would get you single legged against someone who knows what they are doing. Which is not what the guy in the cage did, his was a classic wrestling sprawl.
    What is juros? Did you mean jurus? Jurus is like kata or forms.
    Or did you mean to see some demos of grappling in silat?
  7. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2012 4:51pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Also to note what was on that video wasn't "BJJ".
    Constantly failing to shoot for a leg isn't the BJJ.
    Its like everyone one who does one of these BJJ vs Video where the "BJJ" guy loses is some idiot piss poorly shooting for the legs.
    BJJ contains just a few more takedowns then just rummaging around for the legs.
    Excuse me sir, but I've watched videos of how karate, aikido, krav maga, ninjutsu and kempo guys would defend against a theoretical BJJ player, and they're all consistent in their attack: BJJ= bending at the waist and rummaging for the legs. There's loads of video evidence.
  8. BJMills is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2012 5:02pm


     Style: Muay Thai/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bakuma View Post
    What is juros? Did you mean jurus? Jurus is like kata or forms.
    Or did you mean to see some demos of grappling in silat?

    Meant Jurus... not juros or jurors which seems to be my phone's preference.

    Same way I meant Silat when it sometimes comes out solar. Auto correct is very often not my friend.

    Point is I've seen plenty of Silat grappling but never something like sumi otoshi to arm triangle.

    Also, to go back to the MMA video, all of the Silat I've seen incorporates intercepting and/or trapping attacks in their stand up. Much like the hand exchanges in the video you just posted. But none of that was apparent in the cage.

    So the point would be, if you don't actually use it when fighting, why train it at all? And if you do happen to be able to use it in a pressure environment I'd like to see an example of that, because the examples we've seen are not that.

    And again, just to reiterate, I'm not a big karate fan- Shotokan was actually my first style as a kid but after moving to more competative things I dropped it because I didn't think it worked. Now I see a guy like Machida and he uses it very effectively and it changes my mind a bit. Yes he cross trains but his standup is definitely karate based. Also the way he trains it has a lot to do with how he performs.

    So maybe there is some silat guy (or Ninjutsu guy or Wing Chun guy- Sean Obasi excluded) who is going to impress the hell out of me and make me change my mind.

    But to date I haven't seen anything remotely like it that holds up in a pressure situation. And so far, nothing about the way silat is trained me makes think it wil carry over to a pressure situation.
  9. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/04/2012 5:09pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    To me,
    Machida being used as an example of Shotokan.
    Is the same as
    A LeMans Corvette being used as an example of a Corvette
    or
    A WRC Impreza being an example of an STI
  10. ashkelon is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2012 5:22pm


     Style: Striking, grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    yeah but at least it gives some credibility to the "you have to train it a lifetime" argument.
    well you have to add atomic timing, but one thing at a time.

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