Convince Me That Silat Doesn't Suck Completely

[ashkelon]

http://youtu.be/erR_akDbMeA

nothing says teh deadly like camo ethnic pants!

They will tell you that their mind was changed.
Read more at http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...pF9S5rzxuWC.99

Suggestion, group pressure. Chi balls.

but as usual waste of time to speak one's mind on bs shido unless it does not follow the religious beliefs of the cult mma followers
Read more at http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...pF9S5rzxuWC.99

You do realize people just defended the FMA as similar but way more effective due to training methods?

[bakuma]

That amateur fight video is hardly a ringing endorsement for classical solar.

Certainly not like it is done in any juros I've ever seen. Haven't seen to many sprawl and hammer fist techniques in classic silat either.

Maybe he has done a bit off cross training, no?

No parries with rapid fire multi-hit follow ups. No mortal kombat leg sweeps. Nothing but sloppy sprawl and brawl against an opponent repeatedly going for ineffective single leg takedowns.

I appreciate that the guy may come from a silat background but how many people, even silat people, do you think would correctly identify his style if you just randomly posted the video as an amateur MMA fight?

Honestly, his opponent shoots a single and he sprawls and starts hammerfisting... you're telling me that is silat?

If you're looking for Silat in MMA, that's what you got, standard striking skills, some throws, takedowns, sweeps. Don't expect those fancy or complex movements.

[ashkelon]

why would that be?

[Sinister-6000]

So... despite all the righteous fury that you KNOW is solar all you've got to show for proof is some crappy videos which- I might add- your response to my criticism is 'oh please.'

You can blame us for being skeptical all you want but evidence of silat working against non compliant opponents doesn't seem to be easy to come by, does it?

When someone is in a bjj tournament or in someone's guard their counter usually involves body placement, reversals, getting out of half guard, etc in order to gently transition into a choke, a gradual armbar, etc. Victory is gained by leverage and technique. Silat is very violent and sudden and involves offsetting the spine, neck or joint breaks, that just do not work in exactly the same testing scenario. You can pressure test by taking away some tools for the safety of your partner but in general you would have no uke's left if you pressure tested, locking out their shins, sweeping and stomping on them, offsetting their spine before striking them with your forearm in the neck and other ways you systematically break down the opponent's structure. I dont know anything about that silat practitioner's background. Don't know how much experience he has, who his teacher was or when he learned mma rules. I generally agree as GSP said.........im not impressed by his purr-for-MONS. lol. I never said i was the measure of a martial artist or pressure testing but i have come from a very hard style goju ryu, full contact, kick to the face, punches to the face background and I am very fast, muscular and athletic. I have been put on my face by a 145lb filipino silat practitioner who caught my punch and did an arm bar takedown with one arm by using his shoulder, sweeping and stomping on me. I myself have sparred with friends of different backgrounds. I have trained at an MMA school about 3 months and my hand techniques that came from silat were doing real good against boxing. As far as someone sitting there like a statue-no, they will not do that in real life and you do not have to do 6 moves strung together, you do not even have to do 2 or 3, what you are doing is training yourself to chain techniques and link body reactions. Bjj and every other authentic art teaches chains based on submission techniques and counters......he resists this and you flow into "X" or he moves this way so that takes him right into "Z". Old school silat is built off a platform that is very layered. It makes sense and has an idea behind everything that is done. Skillsets are slowly trained. You dont typically see any silat vs MMA matches in an octagon because it is focused more on the self defense aspects. There are some silat sport teams that contain more sporting, basic techniques-kicking/punching, sweeps, scissor kicks and some of those guys are very skilled as well.

Dog brothers are good, it just shows that east asian arts can work in a pressure tested way. They took what worked best for them and like everyone, we have different body types and are better at certain skills. Paul Vunak and other modern instructors like to play with techniques in an alive manner.

When you open up your mind to getting involved in different arts you may evolve more as a martial artist or at the very least you expand your perception and you may find a technique or two that is fun to play with or incorporate in your own arsenal. I know that all the members on here want to 'strongly deduce' that there cant possibly be any good silat instructors or it is just silly and has no relevance to real world fighting well link up with a couple people and get involved and then make your mind up. Make some calls, talk to people that have been doing it for years, have them show you some techniques or ask them why they still do it. We are martial artists are we not? Why be so predjudiced towards other styles and maintain the Im better than you without becoming more rounded as a person and more open in general. I myself find value in almost all martial arts even though I am partial to some more than others. Im not too concerned about being butt hurt or winning style wars.

[Chili Pepper]

When someone is in a bjj tournament or in someone's guard their counter usually involves body placement, reversals, getting out of half guard, etc in order to gently transition into a choke, a gradual armbar, etc.

(emphasis mine) You, sir, are an idiot.

I know that all the members on here want to 'strongly deduce' that there cant possibly be any good silat instructors or it is just silly and has no relevance to real world fighting

You have that exactly backwards. We want to find technique that works against resisting opponents in an alive setting, and the training methods that allow us to functionalize said technique.

That it is far more likely that we would be able to say "this Muay Thai guy showed me an interesting little fake in a jab-cross-hook combo" rather than "this Tai Chi guy showed me a sweet armbar reversal" suggests that our research efforts be concentrated in arts practiced with aliveness.

[Tom .C]

Aftermath of silat class with live training

[TheMightyMcClaw]

Ideally,said people fighting should be those who fight for a living, or at least as one of their principle hobbies. Backyard MMA matches and sparring sessions are less impressive, and demonstrate the effectiveness of Silat about as well as my butterfly kick at the Detroit Throwdown demonstrated the "effectiveness" of performance wushu.

So while this guy's distinctly un-Silatish sprawl-and-hammerfist combo is still substantially more impressive than all the RAHR DEADLY TIGER CLAW! stand-still-while-I-slap-you-for-ten-minutes demos, that still only brings it up to the level of this:

[BJMills]

If you're looking for Silat in MMA, that's what you got, standard striking skills, some throws, takedowns, sweeps. Don't expect those fancy or complex movements.

My point is simply that the techniques he employed in the cage don't look anything like any Silat I've ever seen. And yes I have seen a bit. I was around when Dan Inosanto was going through his Silat phase and introducing Paul Dethours to. Gave it a try. As someone who was competing in Muay Thai at the time it wasn't my thing.

I never saw anything that resembled a sprawl in silat. Or repeated hammer fists. So if you're posting that as an example of effective Silat I'd love to see some evidence that such things are trained in silat, because if not then the video is more a demonstration of someone from a TMA background having to abandon his TMA techniques in favor of something more pressure tested in order to actually fight.

[BJMills]

When someone is in a bjj tournament or in someone's guard their counter usually involves body placement, reversals, getting out of half guard, etc in order to gently transition into a choke, a gradual armbar, etc. Victory is gained by leverage and technique. Silat is very violent and sudden and involves offsetting the spine, neck or joint breaks, that just do not work in exactly the same testing scenario. You can pressure test by taking away some tools for the safety of your partner but in general you would have no uke's left if you pressure tested, locking out their shins, sweeping and stomping on them, offsetting their spine before striking them with your forearm in the neck and other ways you systematically break down the opponent's structure. I dont know anything about that silat practitioner's background. Don't know how much experience he has, who his teacher was or when he learned mma rules. I generally agree as GSP said.........im not impressed by his purr-for-MONS. lol. I never said i was the measure of a martial artist or pressure testing but i have come from a very hard style goju ryu, full contact, kick to the face, punches to the face background and I am very fast, muscular and athletic. I have been put on my face by a 145lb filipino silat practitioner who caught my punch and did an arm bar takedown with one arm by using his shoulder, sweeping and stomping on me. I myself have sparred with friends of different backgrounds. I have trained at an MMA school about 3 months and my hand techniques that came from silat were doing real good against boxing. As far as someone sitting there like a statue-no, they will not do that in real life and you do not have to do 6 moves strung together, you do not even have to do 2 or 3, what you are doing is training yourself to chain techniques and link body reactions. Bjj and every other authentic art teaches chains based on submission techniques and counters......he resists this and you flow into "X" or he moves this way so that takes him right into "Z". Old school silat is built off a platform that is very layered. It makes sense and has an idea behind everything that is done. Skillsets are slowly trained. You dont typically see any silat vs MMA matches in an octagon because it is focused more on the self defense aspects. There are some silat sport teams that contain more sporting, basic techniques-kicking/punching, sweeps, scissor kicks and some of those guys are very skilled as well.

Dog brothers are good, it just shows that east asian arts can work in a pressure tested way. They took what worked best for them and like everyone, we have different body types and are better at certain skills. Paul Vunak and other modern instructors like to play with techniques in an alive manner.

When you open up your mind to getting involved in different arts you may evolve more as a martial artist or at the very least you expand your perception and you may find a technique or two that is fun to play with or incorporate in your own arsenal. I know that all the members on here want to 'strongly deduce' that there cant possibly be any good silat instructors or it is just silly and has no relevance to real world fighting well link up with a couple people and get involved and then make your mind up. Make some calls, talk to people that have been doing it for years, have them show you some techniques or ask them why they still do it. We are martial artists are we not? Why be so predjudiced towards other styles and maintain the Im better than you without becoming more rounded as a person and more open in general. I myself find value in almost all martial arts even though I am partial to some more than others. Im not too concerned about being butt hurt or winning style wars.

I'm not a bjj guy so I can't answer much to that except to say, having rolled with a few, it is not necessarily as slow and gradual as you think.

But you do bring up a good point worth addressing. What I generally don't like about Silat is the notion of gradually or systematically 'breaking an opponents structure.' resisting opponents move and readjust- pretty much unconsciously- when you try to 'break their structure.' That is why you don't find that kind of movement in wrestling, judo, sambo, or any other art that competes with throws, sweeps, or takedowns.

If I see Silat strategies and techniques being employed effectively against a resisting opponent I will change my mind. Hell, Lyoto Machida changed my mind about karate. Yes he's not quite classical, but his stance, parries and way he holds his hands is very unique to the MMA scene and I think he is one of the best fighters in the sport. Also, after seeing some footage of full contact karate tournaments in south America, he's not a complete outlier. Striking-wise at least there's a lot of really good effective fighters on that circuit.

On a side note my god damned iPhone keeps changing Silat to solar so my apologies if my posts get a little cryptic :-)

[Lebell]

Oh, what I did want to add in about Silat is that I have been to Silat schools in NYC where the instructor was directly from Indonesia, and 2 schools where they were 1 step removed. All 3 schools could not keep members. My guess......Silat is not a simple art and most people cannot do it unless more coordinated than the avg guy to begin with. Everyone here seems to be dying to find a Silat school, yet every silat school I find has like 4 students at most per class. I think it is deadly, an incredibly beautiful street art, but there is a reason the Dog Bros, took stick fighting from the jungle arts and simplified it so anyone can do it. One is not better than the other...it depends what you want. Thats my opinion after living over 50 years on this planet.

Following your logic, the restaurants with no customers, are in fact the best ones!
Or the doctor who lost the most patients actually....etc.

I understand americans know preciously little about the outside world, so lemme tell you...
Indonesia was most of its existance a colony..of....the dutch.
They were bitches of the dutch!
The least heroic people of europe!
owned by the friggin dutch....
Now can you believe if pencak silat really worked they wouldnt have kicked those invaders out?!
No, they stayed our bitches for over almost 4 centuries!

THE DUTCH...let it sink in...

Carry on.