Convince Me That Silat Doesn't Suck Completely

**TheMightyMcClaw** · Posted On: 7/02/2009 2:39pm

Originally Posted by Sinister-6000

Essentially, sorry....there is no video footage on youtube. Period.

And this what awes me. I myself, just me, TheMightyMcClaw, have somewhere around a dozen videos of me sparring, fighting in grappling competitions, fighting in throwdowns, headkicking chunners, and getting punched in the stomach in my living room.
You are seriously telling me that I myself, one person who's lucky if he has time to train twice a week, has more documented evidence of his martial arts ability and training than the entire Silat community? That every single Silat instructor, student, and hotshot backstreet Jakartan killing machine, are less well documented than a single amateur martial arts enthusiast?

What are the chances of seeing such a rare martial art and casually carrying your video camera and seeing a street fight breakout between a silat practitioner and joe blow? If you think it should be common to see them in point sparring or naga matches remember that silat's whole progression as far as strikes and taking them to the ground and transitioning into different locks use techniques that aren't allowed.....
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Hmm, perhaps if there was some type of venue where martial artists could mix strikes and takedowns and groundwork, I don't know, some type of mixed martial arts, if you will.

Originally Posted by Sinister-6000

its not important that the techniques are considered effective, what should be noted is that if a silat person omits their flow and built in strategy of the art, it no longer functions period.

So, are you saying that Silat isn't adaptable? And that it just stops working if you can't play just the way you want to play? Because that's what I'm hearing from this.

Originally Posted by Sinister-6000

It would be like statically waiting for an opportunity and then throwing on a lock or two. Bjj has a built in sport way of transitioning whereas silat creates openings with pinches, neck cranks, etc.

I'm not sure if you realize this or not, but the NAGA allows neck cranks. Thus, my previous statement about how I'd be more impressed by those gotarded neck cranks in that "groundfighting" video if homeboy was using them in the aforementioned NAGA, and not on his student who's playing along.
This, along with most die hard silat practitioners attitude toward sport testing makes them not generally care about testing dumbed down techniques against fully trained, un-inhibited, made-for-the-ring sport grappling techniques. What has been said and needs reiterating is that the OP needs to ask around, through message boards or experienced MAist
[/quote]
That's what I'm doing right now.
Right now.
I'm doing it right now.
Jesus is weeping.

Originally Posted by Sinister-6000

and seek out a silat teacher with credibility. My experience was lucky because I met an AMAZING one the first time. This was only months after I knew indonesian martial arts existed. Now, like I said, Im only interested in silat. If you gave me the offer to study with any martial art in the world, any teacher, it would be a good silat instructor because to me it just rocks that much. I didnt get into any cult activity or ritual. Neither did my instructor hold back techniques. It was badass material from day one.

Then show me it's badassery. Don't you remember the "show, don't tell" principle from your high school English classes?
You may have the impression that I'm just old and curmedgeony and hell-bent on hating Silat regardless of the evidence presented before me, but this is only because no evidence has been presented before me. I assure you, that if Silat truly is as much of a hardcore Javanese killing machine as you and other Silat defenders insist, I will be sure to be quite duly impressed.

**Dsimon3387** · Posted On: 7/02/2009 2:41pm

I am not going to be beating a dead horse... My intention was not to argue the merits of style. My point was and is that a person's point of view should not be judges by their style. Nor should assumptions be made about style BTW.

Regarding arts like Silat and some of the Booj, Kali etc they are arts that require refinement and subtlety. They may not necessarily be arts that a novice should even study frankly, but when you do kick around a few years and you want to develop the capacity to use weapons, subtlety, and just refine your skills there are arts out their that can help your training that train under different conditions.

Over and out. :icon_salu

**Kintanon** · Posted On: 7/02/2009 2:58pm

Originally Posted by Dsimon3387

You can see my post below... you are an ass to assign the merit of a point to someone's style bottom line. You would be suprosed at the crappy arts I did before the Booj... You have been training for how long now and you are an expert on what is effective and not? Very arrogant, what do you know about track records?

Heres a hint my relative novice: Everybody needs different things intheir training at different times. In my case (see below) i needed an art like the Booj, you may not. Train a few years and you will find that out.

I lol at you.
Effectiveness is fairly easy to evaluate, in fact you may have noticed that the entire site is dedicated to evaluating effectiveness. And what I know about track records is that every Booj guy who has ventured into an alive training scenario that we have evidence of has gotten splattered. If you have evidence to the contrary, please, hook us up. Otherwise you were just another pajama wearing LARPer. If you've moved on and studied in an alive manner and gained some real skill then that's great. But don't try to retroactively apply the skill you gained to dead booj training.
I mean, my god, you spent 15 years doing in the Bujinkan to learn what?

**Hedgehogey** · Posted On: 7/02/2009 4:34pm

Originally Posted by Dsimon3387

The arts have certain common features and points of origin. You can look at them and see it just as Kun Tao has that relationship to Chinese Boxing.

Like I said, "if we gave you half a chance".

You hydrocephalic nerds are just itching to both take credit for and dismiss MMA.

**Hedgehogey** · Posted On: 7/02/2009 4:36pm

Regarding arts like Silat and some of the Booj, Kali etc they are arts that require refinement and subtlety.

What a coincidence. BJJ and Judo require refinement and subtlety too. The difference is that with these systems, it turns into actual results.

**Cy Q. Faunce** · Posted On: 7/02/2009 4:54pm

Originally Posted by 1point2

Shut the **** up. My learning process was a thousand times more due to Jack, Ming, and the TD than your masturbatory pseudo-investigation that moved the goalposts every page.

Go die in a fire.

If you're going to offer an olive branch in a PM, it would behoove you not to take public shots at me first. Total bitch move.

I guess you just wanted the last word. Well, maybe I'll let you have it. Then again, maybe I'll let you have it.

**Dsimon3387** · Posted On: 7/02/2009 8:04pm

Originally Posted by Kintanon

I lol at you.
Effectiveness is fairly easy to evaluate, in fact you may have noticed that the entire site is dedicated to evaluating effectiveness. And what I know about track records is that every Booj guy who has ventured into an alive training scenario that we have evidence of has gotten splattered. If you have evidence to the contrary, please, hook us up. Otherwise you were just another pajama wearing LARPer. If you've moved on and studied in an alive manner and gained some real skill then that's great. But don't try to retroactively apply the skill you gained to dead booj training.
I mean, my god, you spent 15 years doing in the Bujinkan to learn what?

what is a buj guy?

When I was doing it regularly you had guys like me who also trained in other syles, you had dweebs who could not fight their way out of a chunner's garage on 120 soaking wet day... all the way to guys who teach in brazil and teach like Dave Doa does, i.e. deal regulalry with other fighters to perfect....

See the Buj is a heterogenious construction, not a monolith. What you feel to realize is that many gracie guys like the Booj for some training, and guys like Nagato? he was a kick boxer.

So tell me mr veteran of "I will fight anyone ala sirc to learn a thing or two" what is a buj guy? By the way onthis last point I admire your pluck but damn why develop a limited mindset like that? SEriously said with love and affection grow up. Growing a pair will only get you so far.

**Dsimon3387** · Posted On: 7/02/2009 8:13pm

Originally Posted by Hedgehogey

What a coincidence. BJJ and Judo require refinement and subtlety too. The difference is that with these systems, it turns into actual results.

With blade work yu could say the same with the indonesian and Filipino arts... people who have to dealwith these weapons swear by em.... How bout that Hedge hogey? and would you like to see the results of a cage match with bladed weapons versus a good silat blade man? there are some good dramitizations on U tube actually...

Gee mom look the BJJ guy went through a blender!

ar ar ar! ok seriously there will be a time in your martial arts training when you might want to venture into weapons and lo and behold you may realize that there are (gasp gasp oxygen please) BETTER arts for that than Judo and BJJ. Gasp gasp! and that gasp gasp this does not mean that BJJ and Judo are inferior or superior gasp but that they address certain scenerios that are productive but limited. And no I am sorry do not give me this bullshit that anyone can pick up a blade or a stick.... I have done this with a dog brother so I can tell you that you would get wiped like mr Clean's head on a suplex... if yu are so into live training try it some time and see for yourself. This might get you to appreciate what the Silat guys practice for brother hedgehoggy....

**Jim_Jude** · Posted On: 7/02/2009 8:16pm

Can we just close this thread already?

JP · Posted On: 7/02/2009 8:41pm

Originally Posted by Cy Q. Faunce

I guess you just wanted the last word. Well, maybe I'll let you have it. Then again, maybe I'll let you have it.

I just wanted to tell you that this statement, well...

I don't know quite how to put this but...

It sorta gave me an erection. Kinda.

And to all the silat guys/advocates who keep posting on this thread trying to convince people with words what has already been stated will only be accomplished by video proof, just let it go.

I mean, even Jim_Jude one of the most rational silat people I've ever spoken with, is asking for this thread to be closed. The only reason for there to be any further posting in this thread is if there is a video of life sparring with a middle to heavy level of contact.

And nobody is disputing the Dog Brothers have the real weapon's sparring. NOBODY.

Stop invoking the fucking dog brothers in this thread.