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  1. Disobizqit is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/30/2009 11:19pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I understand what you are telling me but "idiot" and "whining" really? I was just trying to be civil and courteous considering I don't know you and didn't want to come of as a total dickweed. However I suppose before I have earned the privileg to post like you I will retire to newbietown. Thank you for the critique.
  2. theotherserge is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/01/2009 12:58am

    Join us... or die
     Style: sambo/crossfit

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2 View Post
    Disobizqit, shut the **** up, go to Newbietown until further notice. Don't necro threads for no reason with "me too" posts.
    HEY! Did you know that Jacko died!?! WTF??!!!11!!
    Many things we do naturally become difficult only when we try to make them intellectual subjects. It is possible to know so much about a subject that you become totally ignorant.
    -Mentat Text Two (dicto)
  3. Sinister-6000 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/01/2009 2:01pm


     Style: JJ, Karate, JKD, Silat

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by matrixdutch View Post
    I think in an old thread that someone mentioned Herman Suwanda watching a tape of Leo Gaje doing some panantukan, and afterwards he said that this is how high level Silat looks.

    Does anyone have any good videos demonstrating Silat?
    YouTube - Silat Suffian Bela Diri - Buaya (Crocodile) Groundwork

    (silat groundwork)

    YouTube - Silat Suffian Bela Diri - Destroy your Opponent (read description)

    (silat suffian standup)

    YouTube - Pentjak Silat Kevin Schmitt tjabang Amerindo system
    (silat blend called Amerindo)

    YouTube - Frans Stroeven Pangamut Movie

    Pangamut by Frans Stroeven(basically both silat and kali techniques)

    YouTube - Knife Day met Frans Stroeven Tactical knife fighting 01

    Knife by Frans Stroeven...also part 2,3,4 in sidebar

    YouTube - Kali Empty Hands / Panantukan & Friends

    Panantukan flow(all these techniques and footwork also occur in other systems of silat, even the flow is similar)

    YouTube - Kuntao Animal Aggression Combat Tactics DVD Preview

    This one is more for entertainment and is Rick Hernandez, among one of his teachers was Bill Dethouars

    Other than these and there are a couple more decent clips on youtube...you wont see a scheduled silat match as the traditional old school silat never was interested in exposure and comptetition in sport...sure there is sport silat which looks like karate but that is basically what it is....almost all that is sport silat is night and day in reference to more traditional schools technique, tactic, and movement. It may as well just be called kickboxing. In silat, you don't "arrange" to fight or even give off the fact you are agreeing to fight by putting up a guard, silat doesn't have a normal guard, you just explode off whatever angle you were attacked in and learn to attack from any angle.
  4. Sinister-6000 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/01/2009 5:28pm


     Style: JJ, Karate, JKD, Silat

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2 View Post
    The closed-door training mentality has been disproven in this modern age. I accept that you practice it, but if you won't show proof, STFU.

    As for "find a good Silat school," grow a brain, dipshit. What do we ask of everyone here when they say "find the real X"? What do we want to know? What specific things might you provide other than that, that could help us on this endeavor?

    You're a smart jerkoff. Figure it out and tell us.
    There is still closed door training or at least relatively closed door in many non-mainstream arts such as bjj or muy thai. That doesn't mean there aren't good schools that would rather not market their techniques or perpetuate mcdojos or have people steal their material and add it onto their system. Its pretty respectable if you ask me. My former school was pretty closed door and I put a silat form on youtube(not anywhere near expertly performed) and I almost got a beatdown for it. The next time in class one of my silat seniors fake shanked me with a training blade then gave me a slap on the back like don't do it again. But im sure in some of those same schools students wish other people could see the techniques because they are indeed impressive. I think Jimmy Woo of san soo used to be somewhat closed door as well as many filipino teachers and certain chinese internal martial arts teachers. That doesn't mean there isn't some high level practitioners out there in spite of their shying away from the lime light.
  5. TheMightyMcClaw is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/01/2009 5:44pm

    supporting member
     Style: MMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinister-6000 View Post
    YouTube - Silat Suffian Bela Diri - Buaya (Crocodile) Groundwork

    (silat groundwork)

    YouTube - Silat Suffian Bela Diri - Destroy your Opponent (read description)

    (silat suffian standup)

    YouTube - Pentjak Silat Kevin Schmitt tjabang Amerindo system
    (silat blend called Amerindo)

    YouTube - Frans Stroeven Pangamut Movie

    Pangamut by Frans Stroeven(basically both silat and kali techniques)

    YouTube - Knife Day met Frans Stroeven Tactical knife fighting 01

    Knife by Frans Stroeven...also part 2,3,4 in sidebar

    YouTube - Kali Empty Hands / Panantukan & Friends

    Panantukan flow(all these techniques and footwork also occur in other systems of silat, even the flow is similar)

    YouTube - Kuntao Animal Aggression Combat Tactics DVD Preview

    This one is more for entertainment and is Rick Hernandez, among one of his teachers was Bill Dethouars

    Other than these and there are a couple more decent clips on youtube...you wont see a scheduled silat match as the traditional old school silat never was interested in exposure and comptetition in sport...sure there is sport silat which looks like karate but that is basically what it is....almost all that is sport silat is night and day in reference to more traditional schools technique, tactic, and movement. It may as well just be called kickboxing. In silat, you don't "arrange" to fight or even give off the fact you are agreeing to fight by putting up a guard, silat doesn't have a normal guard, you just explode off whatever angle you were attacked in and learn to attack from any angle.

    So, you might've missed my original post, where I mentioned that demos of happy-slapping and ninja takedowns against compliant opponents weren't under the umbrella of "good" martial arts, and, in fact, that they're often symptomic of bad ones.
    So those videos you posted? Yeah, that still counts as bad. Maybe if the guy in that "groundfighting" video were pulling off those outlandish neck cranks in the NAGA, I'd be impressed, but just flipping around his rag doll of an assistant Bujinkan-style is about as impressive as a man claiming he's a great lover because his hooker never complains.
  6. Sinister-6000 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/01/2009 7:41pm


     Style: JJ, Karate, JKD, Silat

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw View Post
    So, you might've missed my original post, where I mentioned that demos of happy-slapping and ninja takedowns against compliant opponents weren't under the umbrella of "good" martial arts, and, in fact, that they're often symptomic of bad ones.
    So those videos you posted? Yeah, that still counts as bad. Maybe if the guy in that "groundfighting" video were pulling off those outlandish neck cranks in the NAGA, I'd be impressed, but just flipping around his rag doll of an assistant Bujinkan-style is about as impressive as a man claiming he's a great lover because his hooker never complains.

    Have you seen catch wrestling demo vids on youtube? Its done with about the same intensity as was shown in that groundfighting vid...it is the idea that the locks and setups themselves work. Thats how (good) silat is. Good silat has methodology, attack progression, counters, correct use of angles, etc just as a bjj teacher drills into their student a silat teacher will drill the techniques hard...as well there are some catch wrestling neck cranks that can break necks but you aren't going to see that done in a casual comp. Reminiscing awhile back in the thread....there are styles of silat that have what bjj calls "the crucifix" and im not so convinced that the bjj guys themselves didn't rip it from another system and add it into their arsenal. Another point I would like to throw in is that there are good silat teachers who have students with decades of experience. They are not naive tkd'ers with shallow martial understanding, many understand that silat is a technical art. Uncle Bill, even if crazy is one example of a silat instructor who has students with decades of martial training in other arts. I myself came from a Goju Ryu background with extremely hard training and touch conditioning, full power strikes, etc and when i transitioned into silat, all the little filipino instructors could effortlessly toss me on my ass and hold me down with a few fingers in my face. I first got shown why not to chamber and threw a punch at one of the guys and he slapped it away, punched my rear shoulder and slapped the nearest ear in a ricoche` effect, and without missing a beat spun the access of my spine by spinning my arm, elbowing my ribs and sweeping me. From the first class i was in love with silat and only silat from that point on.
  7. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/01/2009 8:43pm

    Join us... or die
     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw View Post
    So, you might've missed my original post, where I mentioned that demos of happy-slapping and ninja takedowns against compliant opponents weren't under the umbrella of "good" martial arts, and, in fact, that they're often symptomic of bad ones.
    So those videos you posted? Yeah, that still counts as bad. Maybe if the guy in that "groundfighting" video were pulling off those outlandish neck cranks in the NAGA, I'd be impressed, but just flipping around his rag doll of an assistant Bujinkan-style is about as impressive as a man claiming he's a great lover because his hooker never complains.
    You know i don't know if you appreciate it but "sinister actually gave yu some good videos, a good explanation about why they are done that way, and a good answer to the original question posed in this thread. Jim Jude also gave a great response.

    Let me chime in as well: Sinister is abolutely correct that the art is practiced with technical perfection in mind. As a matter of fact you trick the person going in and doing things at angles that they defy common perception. Notice that a Silat guy kicks at punching range, moves in a way that is counterinuitive on the ground to the man being manipulated,etc. Its part of the art, deception is used in place of resistance. Also notice that there is never, in the groundwork sequences, etc a point where if the Silat guy misjudges, or moves wrong, he will pay a hefty price... Part of the art is keeping at a distance from the person so that if you are wrong yu donlt get tagged or grabbed...

    The truth is that there is a lot of shitty silat out there and what kills me is there is a lot of confusion between kuntao and Silat.... two different arts with two radically different fighting philosophies. Silat guys hedge their bets, they move in a way so they canot be grabbed... and it is not gung fu. Kun Tao is kung fu. I had the pleasure of training with Silat guys and I incorporate a lot of stuff I learned from them in what I do...because when you do find the real Silat it is awesome ****!!

    Historically keep in mind that as a Silat guy you never would be able to apply leverage like you can in Ju Jitsu... you were fighting big ole Dutchies! and you were half their size. This means that you needed weapons, angles and technical proficiency to win. So the art adapted to circumstances. LIke Brazilian stuff it uses the ground a lot, (Harumi anaybody?) but it does so in a radically different way. When you are worked by a Silat guy you can never reach up and grab back...
  8. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/01/2009 8:47pm

    Join us... or die
     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinister-6000 View Post
    Have you seen catch wrestling demo vids on youtube? Its done with about the same intensity as was shown in that groundfighting vid...it is the idea that the locks and setups themselves work. Thats how (good) silat is. Good silat has methodology, attack progression, counters, correct use of angles, etc just as a bjj teacher drills into their student a silat teacher will drill the techniques hard...as well there are some catch wrestling neck cranks that can break necks but you aren't going to see that done in a casual comp. Reminiscing awhile back in the thread....there are styles of silat that have what bjj calls "the crucifix" and im not so convinced that the bjj guys themselves didn't rip it from another system and add it into their arsenal. Another point I would like to throw in is that there are good silat teachers who have students with decades of experience. They are not naive tkd'ers with shallow martial understanding, many understand that silat is a technical art. Uncle Bill, even if crazy is one example of a silat instructor who has students with decades of martial training in other arts. I myself came from a Goju Ryu background with extremely hard training and touch conditioning, full power strikes, etc and when i transitioned into silat, all the little filipino instructors could effortlessly toss me on my ass and hold me down with a few fingers in my face. I first got shown why not to chamber and threw a punch at one of the guys and he slapped it away, punched my rear shoulder and slapped the nearest ear in a ricoche` effect, and without missing a beat spun the access of my spine by spinning my arm, elbowing my ribs and sweeping me. From the first class i was in love with silat and only silat from that point on.
    Nice analysis of the art. Good Silat is hard to find but worth the effort. One of my students was a pretty high level guy who trained with a Guru in France... I forgot his name... but it was a lot of fun avoiding saris being twirled and otherwise working some of the stuff he did....

    Its just hard to find the good stuff! so people think the art is the junk the see and thats a shame.
  9. 1point2 is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/01/2009 9:10pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 剛 and 柔

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Can we get some remedial Matt Thornton up in this bitch, PUH LEEZ?

    Fucking hell, DSimon, read the thread. I expected this kind of noobery "Oh well it looks OK in that compliant video, so they must be badasses, and who cares about training methods, la la la" from Sinister, but I thought you had some sort of understanding of Bullshido.net's mission (despite your style field).

    EVIDENCE. VIDEO. NON-COMPLIANT TECHNIQUES. SPARRING. ALIVE DRILLING WITH RESISTANCE, PREFERABLY PROGRESSIVE. SHUT THE **** UP WITHOUT THESE.
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates
  10. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/01/2009 11:03pm

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     Style: Taijiquan/Shuai-Chiao/BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2 View Post
    EVIDENCE. VIDEO. NON-COMPLIANT TECHNIQUES. SPARRING. ALIVE DRILLING WITH RESISTANCE, PREFERABLY PROGRESSIVE. SHUT THE **** UP WITHOUT THESE.
    Ah, the enthusiasm of a recent convert.

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