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  1. Jim_Jude is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/02/2009 2:55pm

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     Style: StrikeyGrappling & WW2-fu

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    Quote Originally Posted by raylawley View Post
    I can't handle this anymore :P

    Yes. I do. I think it's awesome because it works extremely effectively under an extremely high pressure situation, one which I would argue is possibly a higher pressure situation than a spontaneous fight. Allow me to elaborate on this logic.

    In a spontaneous fight, unless extensive words are exchanged beforehand (in which case if you're feeling threatened, attacking first is always an option anyway) then your body doesn't really get much of a chance to be adversely affected by stress.
    Curious. According to this rational, in a "spontaneous fight" the martial artist should have full access to his fine motor function, unfettered by the impeding effects of adrenal flush' tunnel vision & restricted gross motor function.

    In contrast, in a ring fight you have a long time to think about the fact that some guy is about to try to beat the crap out of you. You sit around for a couple hours in changerooms pondering this.

    Your adrenaline pumps. Your body reacts to the stress, especially when it's a fairly new experience. When you get in that ring, your body's been stressed for at least an hour.

    You're being badly affected by this, especially when you're fairly new to the ring (Yerkes-Dodson Law - high stress with relatively low experience = lower performance level).

    Admittedly the other guy is in the same boat, but even so it's a fairly interesting difference.

    So the fact that BJJ works while your mind is in such shape impresses me greatly.
    Yes, when you reduce your art to such a two-dimensional level and practice taking your opponent down to that level whether they like it or not, yes, you will prevail quite often. I would never dispute that. However... the cat is out of the bag, & there are many strikers who go out of their way to learn some BJJ or ground fighting so as to keep things at the standing level (takedown counters, sprawling & whatnot). Personally, I think this is much more effective, ESPECIALLY if you want your sport art to translate over to real life, where there is no ring, no preplanning, no viewing of fight tapes, and where there may be multiple opponents and/or weapons.
    What is the universal cry of the Knife Attack or Multiple Attacker Scenario? RUN AWAY. How you gonna do that when you've drilled over & over & over & over to take your opponent to the ground?
    Uriah Faber was apparently in a street fight, as cited earlier in the thread. How useful do you think his ground grappling experience was? He fought his way out, ON HIS FEET, and he RAN.

    And I cannot believe nobody has called you on the "Ours is a COMBAT ART not for SPORT" comment yet! Sorry man, but that gives me nasty flashbacks to the Bujinkan. I know; different stuff. But there's absolutely no reason at all that Silat could not be brought to a throwdown and demonstrated extensively.
    Funny, that wasn't my point. I'm not surprise that that is what you heard tho. I think Silat could be demonstrated very well, and I also think that Silat practitioners should pressure test, absolutely. But, many things that are part & parcel to my particular style of Silat are totally illegal in anything that would be considered a friendly or organized competition match, & I'd probably have to train my ass off to try and get rid of it all. I may be willing to do this some time in the future, but not now. It would ruin my current learning curve.

    I'm not sure if you were being funny or sarcastic earlier when you made a thrust towards the "dangerous techniques that can't be used in sparring" argument, but if not I'm surprised nobody called you on that as well.
    Call me on whatever you like. We can talk about it.

    But anyway. I'm not really qualified to comment further because of my lack of general experience as well as my absolute lack of experience with Silat.
    Yes. An inevitable and undeniable conclusion to a long and rather fruitless post.
    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
    ~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

    "Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
    ~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney
  2. Jim_Jude is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/02/2009 2:59pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whosthemaster View Post
    Kicking, punching and choking don't do a better job against that gun than a knife does.
    The Dog Bros "Die Less Often" materials are a testament to this fact.
    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
    ~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

    "Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
    ~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney
  3. Jim_Jude is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/02/2009 3:01pm

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     Style: StrikeyGrappling & WW2-fu

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    Quote Originally Posted by theotherserge View Post
    I am very specific about my knife training: it was handed to me from my Sambo coach who was a Soviet vet and a true badass. I've improved on what I can but the part that you cannot address accurately is the actual use of knife techniques.

    We use real knives with the blades ground off, plastic ones for the noobs, and do our best to maintan realism in training. What I detest is instructors or ppl who are basically delusional talking about "wrist-locking and holding him till he bleeds out" "slice the Aorta" and all sorts of thngs like that.

    Anyone who's been a Drill Instructor (not me) will tell you there is a huge gap between "you're going to kill another human being" to "you're going to kill on command" Way too many d3adly ma'ers have little/no grasp of this and it shows.

    This is part of the reason that there are tiers of Sambo:grappling/throwing, MMA with a jacket&Military Sport. There must be a psychological test and way to train under duress since technique is an empty toy ifthe **** hits the fan.
    That sounds like good stuff. The next time I head up to Seattle I may have to drop in & see some of that (by invitation, of course) ^_^
    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
    ~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

    "Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
    ~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney
  4. Jim_Jude is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/02/2009 3:04pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by CodosDePiedra View Post
    The Dog Brothers seem to think so. It's an area not really developed in kickboxing or jiujitsu since striking a downed opponent isn't allowed (not that it can't be developed through aliveness, just that before MMA it wasn't really something that any combat sports allowed).
    I was trying to make this point earlier, I think you worded it better.
    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
    ~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

    "Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
    ~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney
  5. matrixdutch is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/02/2009 3:05pm

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    If Steven Plinck or one of his students was by me, I would study with him. He gave Matt Thornton a run for his money when he was a blue belt in BJJ from what I hear.
  6. Jim_Jude is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/02/2009 3:15pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by matrixdutch View Post
    If Steven Plinck or one of his students was by me, I would study with him. He gave Matt Thornton a run for his money when he was a blue belt in BJJ from what I hear.
    I would most definitely recommend anyone to train with either Steven Plinck or Cliff Stewart if they have the chance. Surely an opportunity to see something that I would consider "good Silat".
    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
    ~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

    "Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
    ~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney
  7. Kantroce is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/02/2009 4:03pm


     Style: We'll see

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    I do a combat art. Now if only I could find some combat to test this bad boy out...
  8. Jim_Jude is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/02/2009 4:12pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kantroce View Post
    I do a combat art. Now if only I could find some combat to test this bad boy out...
    Either sign on the line & go to the Sandbox, or get a death wish & wander around the wrong end of town with $100's hanging out of you pockets. Those are pretty much your only two options for teh R347.
    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
    ~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

    "Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
    ~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney
  9. Jim_Jude is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/02/2009 4:32pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by escrimador6 View Post
    I am not arguing for or against the validity of Silat, personally I agree with you and the fact that a group like the Dog Brothers, as well as people like Inosanto, see it as valid re-enforces my belief that it does work. I just didn't think that with in the context of this thread, because of their mixing of multiple styles, that they would be accepted as proof positive that Silat worked.

    When the Dog Brothers where mentioned I saw this argument coming:
    Quote Originally Posted by [B
    TheMightyMcClaw[/B]] I suppose it stands as evidence that Silat works alright when mixed with FMA, Krabi Krabong/Muay Thai, and Brazilian Jiujitsu.



    Personally, I think the Dog Bros have a damn-near perfect blend for what they do. Silat's got some great stuff (if you know where to look, of course. Done to fuckin' death...), but the Dog Brothers game, their blend of FMA+BJJ's got fifth street every time when it comes to sticks+clinch&ground. What Silat DOES bring to the table is some superior footwork and tactics over your average FMA, and probably some techniques that most people haven't seen, which can definitely give you an edge against someone who hasn't seen 'em. CodosDePiedra mentioned some of those earlier (langkah tiga & whatnot)

    As for the "mixing" argument, it's ****. That's like saying "BJJ is really badass, so if you use just that you're guaranteed to win every fight". That's bullshit. A hammer's very useful, but you can't build a house with just a hammer. It's a tool box.
    Last edited by Jim_Jude; 4/02/2009 4:41pm at .
    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
    ~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

    "Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
    ~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney
  10. escrimador6 is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/02/2009 4:51pm


     Style: FMA / BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_Jude View Post
    [/i]

    Personally, I think the Dog Bros have a damn-near perfect blend for what they do. Silat's got some great stuff (if you know where to look, of course. Done to fuckin' death...), but the Dog Brothers game, their blend of FMA+BJJ's got fifth street every time when it comes to sticks+clinch&ground. What Silat DOES bring to the table is some superior footwork and tactics over your average FMA, and probably some techniques that most people haven't seen, which can definitely give you an edge against someone who hasn't seen 'em. CodosDePiedra mentioned some of those earlier (langkah tiga & whatnot)

    As for the "mixing" argument, it's ****. That's like saying "BJJ is really badass, so if you use just that you're guaranteed to win every fight". That's bullshit. A hammer's very useful, but you can't build a house with just a hammer. It's a tool box.
    I'm in full agreement with you. Always was.

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