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  1. Jim_Jude is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/01/2009 7:49pm

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     Style: StrikeyGrappling & WW2-fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw View Post
    This.

    My request was not "Hey, Jim Jude, go beat up GSP while doing Silat."
    It was "hey, everyone on Bullshido, if you are inclined to argue that such a thing exists, then show me some Silat which extends beyond mandancing and pointfighting."

    You demanded video, of fighters, whether amateur or pro, using Silat. Where the hell do you think this is going to come from? Either me, or another, will have to jump through all of your demand hoops to provide proof that will fit your stringent standards. I don't think that it exists, & other folks here highly doubt it also. So someone has to produce it, since you obviously aren't going to step out beyond your apparently negative experience of Silat.
    I'm inclined to argue it, considering that I have years of experience practicing Silat that is neither "mandancing" nor "pointfighting", but I'm not gonna show you anything since it would take up an exorbitant amount of my time and my life, and thus it's a completely unreasonable request.
    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
    ~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

    "Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
    ~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney
  2. Jim_Jude is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/01/2009 7:50pm

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     Style: StrikeyGrappling & WW2-fu

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kantroce View Post
    So...no video, then?
    Obviously.
    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
    ~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

    "Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
    ~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney
  3. Jim_Jude is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/01/2009 7:56pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Van View Post
    105 posts later and still no VIDEO evidence of Silat NOT sucking. Awsome.

    OP I think you have your answer.
    Fixed.


    See the typical Instant Gratification Mind of today's youth.
    "Hey! I wanna answer, right now! What? Nothing on YouTube?
    Well, then it doesn't exist..."
    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
    ~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

    "Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
    ~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney
  4. theotherserge is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/01/2009 8:02pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I hunted around YouTube and some other stuff. There isn't much there that is going to work. There is some very poor quality, garage production of Steve Gartin doing the mandance. Funny thing about him is he does that monkey stance **** and knife-weaving but when he strikes: it's very clean and direct and nasty.

    I've done a bit of knife work and the "signal to noise ratio" for Silat is out of whack, IMO if you find the right people to train with, do so. It's just hard to know. Silat without a knife really isn't Silat. You have to be kind of nuts to get into a knife fight of any kind, but I can respect that more than the delusional idiots out there that think slicing people open is a matter of technique and fancy movements.
    Many things we do naturally become difficult only when we try to make them intellectual subjects. It is possible to know so much about a subject that you become totally ignorant.
    -Mentat Text Two (dicto)
  5. Jim_Jude is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/01/2009 8:02pm

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     Style: StrikeyGrappling & WW2-fu

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    Quote Originally Posted by escrimador6 View Post
    Sorry, my first post was a bit unclear. There is Silat within the Dog Brothers system, as well as Krabi Krabong. However, since the bulk of their system is based on FMAs, I'm guessing that they don't really meet the criteria for proving that silat does or doesn't suck within the confines of this thread.

    Quote from their site:
    "The core of our curriculum is FILIPINO MARTIAL ARTS (FMA). The three principle systems upon which we draw are Inosanto Blend (Guro Dan Inosanto), Pekiti Tirsia (Grand Tuhon Leo Gaje), and Lameco (the late Punong Guro Edgar Sulite), though of course there are many others too. We consider Silat to be a part of both unarmed and weaponry FMA, and, although not Filipino, we wish to acknowledge the influence of the Indonesian system of Bukti Negara Pentjak Silat of Pendekar Paul de Thouars."
    So the fact that the Dog Brothers choose to include Silat in their system and acknowledge it IS NOT proof that there may be something to at least deThouars family Serak Silat? Of course, all of these guys did FMAs for years and years before they had much exposure to Silat & they could have gone to their graves having never learned any Silat. Obviously they saw something worth including in their system, something worth acknowledging publicly and thus tying their well-respected name to. Does that carry any weight?
    Last edited by Jim_Jude; 4/01/2009 8:23pm at .
    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
    ~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

    "Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
    ~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney
  6. Kid Miracleman is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/01/2009 10:09pm

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     Style: On Hiatus

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_Jude View Post
    You demanded video, of fighters, whether amateur or pro, using Silat. Where the hell do you think this is going to come from? Either me, or another, will have to jump through all of your demand hoops to provide proof that will fit your stringent standards.
    I would respectfully disagree that producing video of a Silat practitioner participating in an unarmed Freestyle/Vale Tudo/MMA match is an "out there" request. There are plenty of videos available on teh internets (not necessarily on YouTube) of various TMA practitioners testing their mettle in gong saus and organized matches and what-have-you... is it really such a stretch for a random Silat guy to do the same? To me, getting such a person to (for example) agree to test their skills in an amateur MMA match is hardly a "stringent" requirement.

    Heck, if WC and Ninjutsu practitioners are up to the challenge, surely there's a reasonably-skilled Silat guy out there who's willing to step up to the plate.


    EDIT: This is by no means a request or demand for YOU to furnish a video. Just wanted to clarify that.
    Last edited by Kid Miracleman; 4/01/2009 10:17pm at .
  7. Shiningwolf is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/01/2009 10:27pm


     Style: San Shou, MT, & No-Gi BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I found some no-point Silat sparring. Its Silat v.s. TKD

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-AX-...eature=related

    (It seems a little, none serious, but it was a gem among all those horrible point spar videos)
  8. TheMightyMcClaw is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/01/2009 10:36pm

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     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_Jude View Post
    So the fact that the Dog Brothers choose to include Silat in their system and acknowledge it IS NOT proof that there may be something to at least deThouars family Serak Silat? Of course, all of these guys did FMAs for years and years before they had much exposure to Silat & they could have gone to their graves having never learned any Silat. Obviously they saw something worth including in their system, something worth acknowledging publicly and thus tying their well-respected name to. Does that carry any weight?
    I suppose it stands as evidence that Silat works alright when mixed with FMA, Krabi Krabong/Muay Thai, and Brazilian Jiujitsu.

    [quote=You demanded video, of fighters, whether amateur or pro, using Silat. Where the hell do you think this is going to come from? Either me, or another, will have to jump through all of your demand hoops to provide proof that will fit your stringent standards. I don't think that it exists, & other folks here highly doubt it also. So someone has to produce it, since you obviously aren't going to step out beyond your apparently negative experience of Silat.
    [/quote]
    God forbid someone on Bullshido should ask that the ring record of a martial art's practicioners being taken into account when judging it. Who would ask such an outlandish thing? Some scoundrel, no doubt.
    Why, it's not as though such hatefully maligned arts as Taekwondo (http://www.wat.tv/video/serkan-yilma...0uc_xug3_.html),
    Capoeira(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZljCjwBteM), and Five Animal Kung Fu (http://www.jasondelucia.com/kungfu.htm) have been able to rise to such a challenge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Jude
    I'm inclined to argue it, considering that I have years of experience practicing Silat that is neither "mandancing" nor "pointfighting", but I'm not gonna show you anything since it would take up an exorbitant amount of my time and my life, and thus it's a completely unreasonable request.
    I would really hate to think that you had wasted your time trying to prove a point on Bullshido. That would just be terrible.
  9. TheMightyMcClaw is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/01/2009 10:51pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiningwolf View Post
    I found some no-point Silat sparring. Its Silat v.s. TKD

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-AX-...eature=related

    (It seems a little, none serious, but it was a gem among all those horrible point spar videos)
    That's a good find. I'm kind of intrigued by how much the Pesilat relies on long range midsection kicks - these seem to show up in pretty rarely in Silat demos, but they were the core of his openings and seemed to be the shots he had the best luck in landing.
    Conversely, he got a takedown reversed by a TKDer. Rough.
    More importantly, these guys look like they are having a downright ridiculous amount of fun. I'm envious.
    I have to say that I'm actually growing to respect the pointfighting aspect of Silat, which is mostly a mirror of my growing respect for pointfighting in general. While the pointfighting side of Krotty and the like may be well deserving of it's malignation, it's still a whole helluva lot better than the kata side or the Spear Hand to Ribs Secret Ninja Death Strike side. The same, I feel, holds true of Silat.
  10. Jim_Jude is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/01/2009 11:05pm

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     Style: StrikeyGrappling & WW2-fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Miracleman View Post
    I would respectfully disagree that producing video of a Silat practitioner participating in an unarmed Freestyle/Vale Tudo/MMA match is an "out there" request. There are plenty of videos available on teh internets (not necessarily on YouTube) of various TMA practitioners testing their mettle in gong saus and organized matches and what-have-you... is it really such a stretch for a random Silat guy to do the same? To me, getting such a person to (for example) agree to test their skills in an amateur MMA match is hardly a "stringent" requirement.

    Heck, if WC and Ninjutsu practitioners are up to the challenge, surely there's a reasonably-skilled Silat guy out there who's willing to step up to the plate.
    Of course, it's possible. It was never my intention to imply that there would never be a fighter who's core art was Silat who would participate in MMA.
    (hell, at least one fighter has been mentioned so far in this thread who has competed in Silat comp and does BJJ but still has a high opinion of Silat. Perhaps someone else on this thread should contact him and ask his opinion on the subject.)

    However, most "good" Silat folks have a healthy attitude of syncretism. In my own style, the founder learned Indonesian Kuntao, four styles of Silat, plus training with Jimmy Woo and James Mitose & a mess of other stuff before he finally arrived upon what he considered a pretty comprehensive style. Me, I do Silat, FMAs, plus some boxing and grappling (standing & ground). Of course, I may not be a typical Silat practitioner, but all the Silat guys I know are healthy cross-trainers.

    EDIT: This is by no means a request or demand for YOU to furnish a video. Just wanted to clarify that.
    Heh. Thanks, the pressure's off. ^_^
    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
    ~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

    "Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
    ~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney

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