Convince Me That Silat Doesn't Suck Completely

**Jim_Jude** · Posted On: 4/01/2009 7:49pm

Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw

This.

My request was not "Hey, Jim Jude, go beat up GSP while doing Silat."
It was "hey, everyone on Bullshido, if you are inclined to argue that such a thing exists, then show me some Silat which extends beyond mandancing and pointfighting."

You demanded video, of fighters, whether amateur or pro, using Silat. Where the hell do you think this is going to come from? Either me, or another, will have to jump through all of your demand hoops to provide proof that will fit your stringent standards. I don't think that it exists, & other folks here highly doubt it also. So someone has to produce it, since you obviously aren't going to step out beyond your apparently negative experience of Silat.
I'm inclined to argue it, considering that I have years of experience practicing Silat that is neither "mandancing" nor "pointfighting", but I'm not gonna show you anything since it would take up an exorbitant amount of my time and my life, and thus it's a completely unreasonable request.

**Jim_Jude** · Posted On: 4/01/2009 7:50pm

Originally Posted by Kantroce

So...no video, then?

Obviously.

**Jim_Jude** · Posted On: 4/01/2009 7:56pm

Originally Posted by E-Van

105 posts later and still no VIDEO evidence of Silat NOT sucking. Awsome.

OP I think you have your answer.

Fixed.

See the typical Instant Gratification Mind of today's youth.
"Hey! I wanna answer, right now! What? Nothing on YouTube?
Well, then it doesn't exist..."

**theotherserge** · Posted On: 4/01/2009 8:02pm

I hunted around YouTube and some other stuff. There isn't much there that is going to work. There is some very poor quality, garage production of Steve Gartin doing the mandance. Funny thing about him is he does that monkey stance **** and knife-weaving but when he strikes: it's very clean and direct and nasty.

I've done a bit of knife work and the "signal to noise ratio" for Silat is out of whack, IMO if you find the right people to train with, do so. It's just hard to know. Silat without a knife really isn't Silat. You have to be kind of nuts to get into a knife fight of any kind, but I can respect that more than the delusional idiots out there that think slicing people open is a matter of technique and fancy movements.

**Jim_Jude** · Posted On: 4/01/2009 8:02pm

Originally Posted by escrimador6

Sorry, my first post was a bit unclear. There is Silat within the Dog Brothers system, as well as Krabi Krabong. However, since the bulk of their system is based on FMAs, I'm guessing that they don't really meet the criteria for proving that silat does or doesn't suck within the confines of this thread.

Quote from their site:
"The core of our curriculum is FILIPINO MARTIAL ARTS (FMA). The three principle systems upon which we draw are Inosanto Blend (Guro Dan Inosanto), Pekiti Tirsia (Grand Tuhon Leo Gaje), and Lameco (the late Punong Guro Edgar Sulite), though of course there are many others too. We consider Silat to be a part of both unarmed and weaponry FMA, and, although not Filipino, we wish to acknowledge the influence of the Indonesian system of Bukti Negara Pentjak Silat of Pendekar Paul de Thouars."

So the fact that the Dog Brothers choose to include Silat in their system and acknowledge it IS NOT proof that there may be something to at least deThouars family Serak Silat? Of course, all of these guys did FMAs for years and years before they had much exposure to Silat & they could have gone to their graves having never learned any Silat. Obviously they saw something worth including in their system, something worth acknowledging publicly and thus tying their well-respected name to. Does that carry any weight?

**Kid Miracleman** · Posted On: 4/01/2009 10:09pm

Originally Posted by Jim_Jude

You demanded video, of fighters, whether amateur or pro, using Silat. Where the hell do you think this is going to come from? Either me, or another, will have to jump through all of your demand hoops to provide proof that will fit your stringent standards.

I would respectfully disagree that producing video of a Silat practitioner participating in an unarmed Freestyle/Vale Tudo/MMA match is an "out there" request. There are plenty of videos available on teh internets (not necessarily on YouTube) of various TMA practitioners testing their mettle in gong saus and organized matches and what-have-you... is it really such a stretch for a random Silat guy to do the same? To me, getting such a person to (for example) agree to test their skills in an amateur MMA match is hardly a "stringent" requirement.

Heck, if WC and Ninjutsu practitioners are up to the challenge, surely there's a reasonably-skilled Silat guy out there who's willing to step up to the plate.

EDIT: This is by no means a request or demand for YOU to furnish a video. Just wanted to clarify that.

**Shiningwolf** · Posted On: 4/01/2009 10:27pm

I found some no-point Silat sparring. Its Silat v.s. TKD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-AX-...eature=related

(It seems a little, none serious, but it was a gem among all those horrible point spar videos)

**TheMightyMcClaw** · Posted On: 4/01/2009 10:36pm

Originally Posted by Jim_Jude

So the fact that the Dog Brothers choose to include Silat in their system and acknowledge it IS NOT proof that there may be something to at least deThouars family Serak Silat? Of course, all of these guys did FMAs for years and years before they had much exposure to Silat & they could have gone to their graves having never learned any Silat. Obviously they saw something worth including in their system, something worth acknowledging publicly and thus tying their well-respected name to. Does that carry any weight?

I suppose it stands as evidence that Silat works alright when mixed with FMA, Krabi Krabong/Muay Thai, and Brazilian Jiujitsu.

[quote=You demanded video, of fighters, whether amateur or pro, using Silat. Where the hell do you think this is going to come from? Either me, or another, will have to jump through all of your demand hoops to provide proof that will fit your stringent standards. I don't think that it exists, & other folks here highly doubt it also. So someone has to produce it, since you obviously aren't going to step out beyond your apparently negative experience of Silat.
[/quote]
God forbid someone on Bullshido should ask that the ring record of a martial art's practicioners being taken into account when judging it. Who would ask such an outlandish thing? Some scoundrel, no doubt.
Why, it's not as though such hatefully maligned arts as Taekwondo (http://www.wat.tv/video/serkan-yilma...0uc_xug3_.html),
Capoeira(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZljCjwBteM), and Five Animal Kung Fu (http://www.jasondelucia.com/kungfu.htm) have been able to rise to such a challenge.

Originally Posted by Jim Jude

I'm inclined to argue it, considering that I have years of experience practicing Silat that is neither "mandancing" nor "pointfighting", but I'm not gonna show you anything since it would take up an exorbitant amount of my time and my life, and thus it's a completely unreasonable request.

I would really hate to think that you had wasted your time trying to prove a point on Bullshido. That would just be terrible.

**TheMightyMcClaw** · Posted On: 4/01/2009 10:51pm

Originally Posted by Shiningwolf

I found some no-point Silat sparring. Its Silat v.s. TKD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-AX-...eature=related

(It seems a little, none serious, but it was a gem among all those horrible point spar videos)

That's a good find. I'm kind of intrigued by how much the Pesilat relies on long range midsection kicks - these seem to show up in pretty rarely in Silat demos, but they were the core of his openings and seemed to be the shots he had the best luck in landing.
Conversely, he got a takedown reversed by a TKDer. Rough.
More importantly, these guys look like they are having a downright ridiculous amount of fun. I'm envious.
I have to say that I'm actually growing to respect the pointfighting aspect of Silat, which is mostly a mirror of my growing respect for pointfighting in general. While the pointfighting side of Krotty and the like may be well deserving of it's malignation, it's still a whole helluva lot better than the kata side or the Spear Hand to Ribs Secret Ninja Death Strike side. The same, I feel, holds true of Silat.

**Jim_Jude** · Posted On: 4/01/2009 11:05pm

Originally Posted by Kid Miracleman

I would respectfully disagree that producing video of a Silat practitioner participating in an unarmed Freestyle/Vale Tudo/MMA match is an "out there" request. There are plenty of videos available on teh internets (not necessarily on YouTube) of various TMA practitioners testing their mettle in gong saus and organized matches and what-have-you... is it really such a stretch for a random Silat guy to do the same? To me, getting such a person to (for example) agree to test their skills in an amateur MMA match is hardly a "stringent" requirement.

Heck, if WC and Ninjutsu practitioners are up to the challenge, surely there's a reasonably-skilled Silat guy out there who's willing to step up to the plate.

Of course, it's possible. It was never my intention to imply that there would never be a fighter who's core art was Silat who would participate in MMA.
(hell, at least one fighter has been mentioned so far in this thread who has competed in Silat comp and does BJJ but still has a high opinion of Silat. Perhaps someone else on this thread should contact him and ask his opinion on the subject.)

However, most "good" Silat folks have a healthy attitude of syncretism. In my own style, the founder learned Indonesian Kuntao, four styles of Silat, plus training with Jimmy Woo and James Mitose & a mess of other stuff before he finally arrived upon what he considered a pretty comprehensive style. Me, I do Silat, FMAs, plus some boxing and grappling (standing & ground). Of course, I may not be a typical Silat practitioner, but all the Silat guys I know are healthy cross-trainers.

EDIT: This is by no means a request or demand for YOU to furnish a video. Just wanted to clarify that.

Heh. Thanks, the pressure's off. ^_^