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  1. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/14/2004 7:52am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Echanis had a few books published by Ohara publications in the 70's about knife fighting and stick fighting, I am not sure if they were "militray oriented".
    I don't know NOW, but the Special Forces implemented many Hwarang-do techniques into their HTH due to Echanis.
    There was an article about that in Black Belt in the early 80's I think.
  2. The_Dude73 is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/14/2004 8:40am


     Style: BJJ, CSW

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Any school could have a SEAL or any Special Operations person come into their hall for a few classes and they'll claim they've taught (insert cool elite group here). It just happens. It's a marketing ploy.

    CCI, a martial arts school down in Fayetteville, teaches LINE. LINE classes are open only to military personnel. I don't have any first hand experience with it, but guys I know that have didn't think much of it.

    One of my off and on training partners is an SF guy who has been back and forth to Eastern Europe so much that he's picked up quite a bit of Sambo. He trains in it quite a bit when he's there.
  3. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/14/2004 8:44am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I believe LINE is what is taught to the Marine Corp for their HTH.
  4. punchingdummy is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/14/2004 8:50am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by ronin69
    I believe LINE is what is taught to the Marine Corp for their HTH.
    Yes, or at least they did. I'm not sure how it fits into the new MCMAP program. Either way, it's garbage.
  5. The_Dude73 is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/14/2004 8:52am


     Style: BJJ, CSW

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You believe incorrectly.

    The Marine Corps now has MCMAP. Marine Corps Martial Arts Program. It's a system devised for the Corps' needs. It has a belt ranking system. A graduate of Marine basic training is considered a Tan belt. The MCMAP training cadre has the motto, "One Mind, One Weapon."

    The base at Quantico has an MMA fight team, I think many of them are MCMAP guys. I've seen their guys in some of the amateur competitions in Va Beach and Richmond. Their record is somewhat mixed. They have heart and will stand and bang toe to toe with their opponents, but their ground skills are a little lacking and that's where they tend to lose. I think one drawback for them is that MCMAP has a large focus on weapon improvisation for the battlefield, and that doesn't really translate well to MMA.
  6. punchingdummy is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/14/2004 8:53am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by The_Dude73
    CCI, a martial arts school down in Fayetteville, teaches LINE. LINE classes are open only to military personnel.
    CCI ... sounds like some former Marine Close Combat Instructors continuing the L.I.N.E. tradition ...
  7. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/14/2004 8:54am

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     Style: Shi Ja Quan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When it comes to HTH for the military, they should keep it simple and sweet:
    Half a dozen strikes, a few locks, a few chokes and then DRILL them till they are second nature.
    Just like shooting, simple: AIM and SHOOT , now DRILL !!!!!
    It doesn't matter WHAT they teach for HTH, its HOW they teach that is the problem.
    I know that AFTER many soliders find their own MA and practise that, but I think that the military should, never the less, invest in some decent training methodologies.
    HTH skills make for a better and more agressive and confident solider.
  8. punchingdummy is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/14/2004 9:02am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by ronin69
    HOW they teach that is the problem.
    You nailed that one. In my limited experience, most Marines receive a basic, or "awareness", level of training throught their initial training cycle. Once they leave the basic schools, it's really up to the individual units as to how much it is practiced. It's not a priority in most training shcedules and most units would be lucky if they worked with it twice a month. The amount of actual sparring is actually very little. There may be an occasional boxing match where you can slug it out, or an occasional wrestling day as part of PT, but really little application. The moves are generally taught in isolation and there are very little combinations. There's just not enough unit level training to make guys good at this stuff.
  9. BlacksmithSEAL is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/15/2004 8:04am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Okay, folks... here's the basic intel I've gotten from my SEAL Teammates regarding Micheal "Mike" Echanis.

    There were some SEALs on the east coast who trained with the man, and he DID visit the SEAL Team TWO compound and the UDT-21 compound. NONE of the guys I have heard from seem to recall him actually training anyone as either a contract instructor or as a "visiting" military instructor.

    So far as I could learn, while some of the guys on the Teams worked out with him, his particular regimen or style was never formally adopted as the "official" MA style to be used by the Teams.

    As with every person and every situation, opinions differ greatly.

    I've heard from one man who counted Echanis as a personal friend and a great guy.

    I've heard from another man who watched him demonstrate some rather arcane 'abilities' (letting a jeep roll over his chest while he lay in a shallow trench in the ground, and suspending a bucket of water from a skewer he'd run through his neck skin) and was somewhat impressed... but really didn't think his fighting stuff was all that great.

    I've heard from one Teammate who feels that Echanis was a legend in his own mind, and spent a great deal of time exaggerating the impact of his personal version of MA on the rest of the world.

    And I've heard from several who "know the name... but don't recall anything particularly special" about either the man or his MA system.

    Bottom line, I guess, is that as previously stated, all MA training conducted in the BUD/S training unit and the Navy's SEAL Teams is done by NAVY personnel and NOT contract instructors. While there have been portions of various MA fighting systems that have been incorporated into the HTH training for the Navy's SEALs, there just isn't any ONE system that takes top billing or is taught to the exclusion of all else.

    As with any other group of men, there are members of the SEAL Teams who participate in MA training on their own time... and their opinions as to the "best" system vary widely from man to man.
    Steve Robinson RM2(SEAL)
    USN 1970-1978
    SEAL Team ONE
    Inshore Undersea Warfare Group ONE
    -UDT-SEAL Association - Member
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    -Author - NO GUTS, NO GLORY - Unmasking Navy SEAL Imposters
  10. Daanson is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/15/2004 8:14am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hell Yeah, Tell it like it is!!
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