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  1. The_Dude73 is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/13/2004 1:36pm


     Style: BJJ, CSW

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Steve, I'll try to send one from my home account which I can't get to right now, but I'm sure you probably know him. Initials S.C., graduated in '86, mustang officer. Got a bit of a commendation for his actions during the whole 9/11 Pentagon craziness. He's since moved on to SDV-1 in Hawaii. He was a good person to contact whenever I suspected that I'd encountered a phony.

    When I say earned all three, I mean to say that they were SEALs who went through Ranger school and the Q Course, not really serving as part of an actual Group. The names of both of the guys I'm thinking of escape me unfortunately.

    Joen00b, PJs have their own Indoc course that is extremely tough, later in their pipeline they attend the SF SCUBA school in Key West. There are SEAL instructors as part of the staff there, but PJs don't attend any part of BUD/S.

    What's a Delta or ST-6? Never heard of them. There aren't any units named those things these days.
  2. MaverickZ is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/13/2004 1:37pm

    supporting member
     Style: white boy jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "SEAL Team SIX was officially commissioned on 15 August 1980. It was DECOMMISSIONED and officially ceased to exist about 1989 (the precise date is purposely vague... at the Navy's request). It has not existed for about 13 years." - blacksmithSEAL page 4
  3. BlacksmithSEAL is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/13/2004 1:50pm

    Business Class Supporting Membersupporting member
     The POW Network Style: none

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As I believe I noted in an earlier posting, ST6 ceased to exist about 1989 (the Navy has requested that the exact date be left vague). It has not existed for some 13 years. Many of the men who were attached to the unit at the time of decommissioning were reassigned to a T&E group that is specifically tasked with testing and evaluating tactics, technology, and techniques for use by Naval Special Warfare elements. Of course the role of the Navy's SEAL Teams INCLUDES anti-terrorism, especially in a maritime environment.

    When the AF PJs (or any other members of the non-navy branches of the military) attend "SEAL training", it is for a very abbreviated form of BUD/S, and it does NOT qualify them to wear the SEAL Trident device or call themselves SEALs or "SEAL qualified". It is only for the purpose of teaching them what they need to know to function in the maritime environment... instruction provided by the top experts in the field - the SEALs.

    I am not conversant with specifics about training programs conducted by other branches of the military, but must presume the same sort of limitations apply.

    Ronin, I hear the Canuks are a real KICK-ASS group of guys, and I'm sure you would have enjoyed the SEAL training. As you surmise, the SAS is often noted as being very similar in their training regimen... although I don't believe ANY unit has such comprehensive training in all of the various elements (sea, air, land) as the SEALs. I had a chance to converse at length with a former member of the Soviet/Russian SPETZIAL NAZNAT (Spetznaz - literally "Special Knowledge") - their most 'elite' military unit - when I went to Russia back in 1998. I must say that it was like talking with one of my own SEAL Teammates... but even THEY did not have a requirement for everyone to be fully training in underwater work.
    Steve Robinson RM2(SEAL)
    USN 1970-1978
    SEAL Team ONE
    Inshore Undersea Warfare Group ONE
    -UDT-SEAL Association - Member
    -POW Network Board of Directors
    -Naval Special Warfare Archives - SOF Analyst/Contributing Journalist
    -Disabled American Veterans - Life Member
    -FORMER Special Investigator - SEAL Authentication Team
    -CyberSEALs.org - Webmaster
    -Author - NO GUTS, NO GLORY - Unmasking Navy SEAL Imposters
  4. BlacksmithSEAL is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/13/2004 1:58pm

    Business Class Supporting Membersupporting member
     The POW Network Style: none

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    DUDE,
    YEP... we know the same guy... former SEAL CPO, went mustanger, was BUPERS, was decorated for heroism in saving lives at the Pentagon on 9/11... now in Hawaii. I swapped emails with him only two days ago!! I'll look forward to getting your off-board email, brother!

    As far as I know there isn't any of the SEAL training being given to members of other branches that is referred to as BUD/S... however, some of the principles being taught to sailors during BUD/S training is also taught to visiting military members from other branches during joint training.
    Steve Robinson RM2(SEAL)
    USN 1970-1978
    SEAL Team ONE
    Inshore Undersea Warfare Group ONE
    -UDT-SEAL Association - Member
    -POW Network Board of Directors
    -Naval Special Warfare Archives - SOF Analyst/Contributing Journalist
    -Disabled American Veterans - Life Member
    -FORMER Special Investigator - SEAL Authentication Team
    -CyberSEALs.org - Webmaster
    -Author - NO GUTS, NO GLORY - Unmasking Navy SEAL Imposters
  5. joen00b

    Guest

    Posted On:
    1/13/2004 2:01pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by The_Dude73
    Joen00b, PJs have their own Indoc course that is extremely tough, later in their pipeline they attend the SF SCUBA school in Key West. There are SEAL instructors as part of the staff there, but PJs don't attend any part of BUD/S.
    Ya learn new things everyday. I knew they did water training, and he did mention a SEAL trainer making life hell on him during his training. Perhaps that was the misconception I was under. He said it was extrememly tough to get that far into the program and felt like an utter failure for washing out.

    Where he washed out was an excercise simulating fighting conditions in water or something along those lines. The trainer kept dunking him, and dragging him under water and forcing him to exert himself underwater, and he freaked out really bad. I'm sure there was more to it, but what it was I'm unsure of. he was not happy talking about the ordeal. Perhaps anyone who is familiar with this portion of the training can expound upon it or correct my (further) mosconceptions.

    Thanks for clearing that up, btw.
  6. punchingdummy is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/13/2004 2:03pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: TSK

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by The_Dude73
    You should check, I'd be interested in the answer.
    Well Dude, Mr. Robinson ran the name through his database and came up with nada. I stand corrected.

    What a friggin' n00b!
  7. Sam Browning is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/13/2004 5:00pm

    hall of famestaff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hi Steve:

    I was wondering if you knew anything about Michael Echanis and whether he actually did train the U.S. Navy Seals. In the Original Martial Arts Encyclopedia by John Corcoran and Emil Farkas he is described as follows:

    "Echanis, Michael (1950-1978) American martial arts instructor and author. Echanis was considered a leading authority in hand to hand combat and was a former senior instructor for the Special Forces and the U.S. Navy Seals. Specializing in unconventional warfare, Echanis taught throughout the world. I was while he was training in Nicaragua that he was killed. A former member of the 75th Ranger Special Forces. Echanis served in Vietnam and was wounded in 1970. He studied un shin bup, a Korean version of ninjutsu, under hwarang-do grandmaster Joo Bang Lee and developed this discipline for use by the U.S. Special Forces, Seals, VDTs and so on. Enchanis wrote three books: Knife Self-Defense for Combat; Knife Fighting, Knife Throwing for Combat; and Basic Stick Fighting for Combat." (p. 321)

    My problems ith the above discription is 1) VDTs is probably a typo for UDTs. 2) There is probably no proof that un shin bup existed in Korea other then Joo Bang Lee's word, and Lee has told some real fanciful tales concerning the history of his own art Hwarang-do (See the "Is Hwarang-do a McDojo?" thread on this forum) Given the second issue I have to wonder if the rest of this entry is accurate and I thought that you may have run across Michael Echanis during the 1970s.
  8. BlacksmithSEAL is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/13/2004 5:58pm

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     The POW Network Style: none

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Nope... don't recall ever encountering the man. The only guys teaching MA in the Teams (SEAL Team ONE, UDT-11, UDT-12, UDT13) on the West Coast from Feb 1971 to Sep 1973 were all Navy men... all SEALs. That's the time period I spent in the Team compound as a member of ST1. I moved to the main base and did two years as a SEAL with Inshore Undersea Warfare Group ONE, working with the Marine Mammal program (dolphins), working with Mobile Inshore Undersea Warfare Team ONE as a communications specialist, and acting as a Spec Ops training liaison between IUWG-1 personnel and SEAL Team ONE (coordinating training at the SEAL facility in the Imperial Valley (desert) training camp for the non-SEAL members of IUWG-1). So... my familiarity with who was actually training MA in the Team compound is strictly limited to the years I was actually with ST1.

    I should note here that since all of the Underwater Demolition Teams were decommissioned in 1983 and then immediately recommissioned as SEAL Teams, it has been the convention within the Naval Special Warfare community to refer to ALL men who have ever been a part of the NSW community as "SEALS"... even those who served as members of the various precursor units to the SEAL Teams before the SEALs came into existence in Jan 1962; the Naval Amphibious Scouts & Raiders, Naval Combat Demolition Units, and Underwater Demolition Teams.

    So... when I say that only SEALs were instructing in MA, that includes all the guys who were actually stationed with one of the UDTs (their compound was adjacent to the ST1 compound and actually shared a common wall, with a covered walk-through from one area to the other.

    I will send out an inquiry to the roughly 600 Teammates who share a private email forum and see if anyone knows anything about him. I'll post the information I get, one way or another.
    Steve Robinson RM2(SEAL)
    USN 1970-1978
    SEAL Team ONE
    Inshore Undersea Warfare Group ONE
    -UDT-SEAL Association - Member
    -POW Network Board of Directors
    -Naval Special Warfare Archives - SOF Analyst/Contributing Journalist
    -Disabled American Veterans - Life Member
    -FORMER Special Investigator - SEAL Authentication Team
    -CyberSEALs.org - Webmaster
    -Author - NO GUTS, NO GLORY - Unmasking Navy SEAL Imposters
  9. Sam Browning is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/13/2004 6:10pm

    hall of famestaff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I appreciate it Steve, Echanis was well known in the martial arts community at one time because of his books, and was one of the first to promote his work by using the SEAL connection. I think he was also a mercenary which adds fame or infamy to his reputation depending on who one talks to. Its always nice to know the truth about a character, especially when their life no longer needs to remain in the shadows.

    BTW if it wasn't a typo, is VTDs a social disease that frisky frogmen get? *Ducks quickly*
  10. BlacksmithSEAL is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/13/2004 6:15pm

    Business Class Supporting Membersupporting member
     The POW Network Style: none

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm almost sure that VDT is something that was only possible to contract while swimming across the '**** ditch' river to get from the base to Olongapo City in the Phillipine Islands. That, of course, means that most every Navy man who was stationed in the PI probably has a latent strain of the disease coursing through his veins!

    * You'd BETTER duck!!*
    Steve Robinson RM2(SEAL)
    USN 1970-1978
    SEAL Team ONE
    Inshore Undersea Warfare Group ONE
    -UDT-SEAL Association - Member
    -POW Network Board of Directors
    -Naval Special Warfare Archives - SOF Analyst/Contributing Journalist
    -Disabled American Veterans - Life Member
    -FORMER Special Investigator - SEAL Authentication Team
    -CyberSEALs.org - Webmaster
    -Author - NO GUTS, NO GLORY - Unmasking Navy SEAL Imposters
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