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  1. socratic is offline

    How do elenchus?

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    Posted On:
    3/23/2009 2:47am


     Style: gah, transition again

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by pokeroo View Post
    According to some other raw milk videos I have been watching, some of the bacteria in it produce lactase. I think my body produces it too, however there is an anecdote of a severly lactose intolerant man who innoculated himself with raw milk and was then able to drink pasturized milk. He then killed off his flora using antibiotics and was no longer able to tolerate pasteurized milk, then reinoculated himself and gained back his tolerance. There are alternatives though if you can't drink it. You can swallow an enzyme in pill form beforehand, you can drink milk with lactase added, or you can drink goat's milk.

    Regarding the estrogen thing... Soy has been shown to contain phytoestrogens. Doesn't mean you will necessarily grow tits, unless you drink a lot (just like beer), it will increase your chances of certain kinds of cancers though. I don't think anyone, male or female should be drinking soy.
    Source?
    Lord Krishna said: I am terrible time the destroyer of all beings in all worlds, engaged to destroy all beings in this world; Of those heroic soldiers presently situated in the opposing army, even without you none will be spared.
    Bhagavad Gita 11:32
  2. pokeroo is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/23/2009 2:53am


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    Quote Originally Posted by socratic View Post
    Source?
    If you want a source for my anecdote regarding the bacteria / lactose thing, I can provide the video, but keep in mind that it is anecdotal/speculative. his testimony before the congress of I think california may be on video somewhere too.

    As for the estrogen thing, my statement was that taking in phytoestrogens won't necessarily make you grow big man-boobs. I think this should be common sense because it will depend on the dose, and what your hormone levels are before you take it.
  3. socratic is offline

    How do elenchus?

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    Posted On:
    3/23/2009 3:04am


     Style: gah, transition again

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    Quote Originally Posted by pokeroo View Post
    If you want a source for my anecdote regarding the bacteria / lactose thing, I can provide the video, but keep in mind that it is anecdotal/speculative. his testimony before the congress of I think california may be on video somewhere too.

    As for the estrogen thing, my statement was that taking in phytoestrogens won't necessarily make you grow big man-boobs. I think this should be common sense because it will depend on the dose, and what your hormone levels are before you take it.
    I meant the part where you said phytoestrogens give you cancer, or effect the estrogen levels of your body.

    Wouldn't most grains and plant-products contain at least small amounts of estrogen?
    Lord Krishna said: I am terrible time the destroyer of all beings in all worlds, engaged to destroy all beings in this world; Of those heroic soldiers presently situated in the opposing army, even without you none will be spared.
    Bhagavad Gita 11:32
  4. pokeroo is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/23/2009 3:11am


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    Quote Originally Posted by socratic View Post
    Source?
    Sorry I didn't notice the highlighted part. OK regarding cancer:

    "Estrogen itself is known to be a two-edged sword, warding off osteoporosis, heart disease, and perhaps dementia, among other conditions, on the one hand, but fuelling certain cancers on the other. "

    from

    http://www.aquarianonline.com/Wellness/soy2.html

    I mentioned the estrogen / cancer thing from memory but I guess I'll have to be careful. Upon googling it, there is a lot of info pointing either way. Still I'd avoid soy until more is known about it. Especially as most of the research seems to only idicate positive side effects of these chemicals for women.
  5. pokeroo is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/23/2009 3:19am


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    Quote Originally Posted by socratic View Post
    I meant the part where you said phytoestrogens give you cancer, or effect the estrogen levels of your body.

    Wouldn't most grains and plant-products contain at least small amounts of estrogen?
    One of the pages I just read mentioned that many or most plants we consume produce phytoestrogens. I think the thing with fermented soy or soy is that it contains a lot more. As a man, I think the estrogen manufactured in the brain is all that I need. Though on review, it does indicate that for breast cancer anyway there may be positive effects, there are also negative documented effects including sexual disfuction (men and women) and hypothyroidism.
  6. TheRuss is offline
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    is badder than you

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    Posted On:
    3/23/2009 8:47am

    Join us... or die
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    Quote Originally Posted by socratic View Post
    Australian skim has less than real milk but more that soy. Crazy stuff.
    Dairy Australia says no more than 0.15% of fat. By my math, that means that if you're drinking four litres a day, that's six grams of fat. In other words, a non-issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
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  7. Torakaka is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/23/2009 10:56am

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    I drink soy milk because I love the taste, not because I don't want to hurt animals. I love me some red meat. Also, being that I am a woman I'm not terribly afraid of estrogen.
    Ranked #9 internationally at 118lbs by WIKBA http://www.womenkickboxing.com/wikba...rch%202009.htm
  8. IannaI77 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/24/2009 2:03am


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    wow, do people really not realize the difference between phytoestrogens (a diverse group of naturally occurring non steroidal plant compounds) and actual estrogen?
    phytoestrogens are molecules with similar characteristic to actual estrogen, and may mimic some of the actions of estrogen within the human body. that being said, they are not an actual hormone and will not cause/help anybody to grow tits.
    In men, isoflavones supplementation has no effect in sperm concentration, count or mobility and show no changes in testicular or ejaculate volume.Researchers are studying if phytoestrogens can prevent prostate cancer.
    read more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytoes...s_and_Benefits
    a very preliminary search on the benefits of soy protein to muscle growth revealed this:
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/drobson71.htm
    by no means authoritative, but suggestive of a wider range of possibilities. many professional athletes and bodybuilders, male and female, supplement with soy protein/milk.
    That being said, I love cows milk and it is my favorite training supplement/food. I drink raw/organic milk when I can get it, and really prefer goats milk, but don't believe the industrial stuff will kill me right away.
    As for kidSpatula's addiction to vanilla soy milk, I would worry about the high sugar content of these products more than anything else. Sugar is the main cause of obesity and other health problems such as diabetes. Whereas consuming large amounts of fat as part of a balanced diet, including substantial quanitites of animal fat, has been shown to actually help reduce overall bodyfat: http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2005/05/67473
    Last edited by IannaI77; 3/24/2009 2:08am at .
  9. retrograde is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/24/2009 3:38am


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    Here is what Berardi says about soy.

    It's surprising how much negativity has been out there about soy in the past few years given most people have never actually done or read any research themselves. I suspect it's because it plays nicely into our cultural "meat and four veg" upbringing. Or something; I don't really care.

    I'm not a scientist; soy may be bad for you. On the evidence available, there's a whole lot of other food I'd be more worried about though. Like processed meat. I never see people jump around about bolagna, though.

    My main concern with soy milk would be that they tend to pump it with a lot of other crap to make it taste better. Plain soy milk isn't quite as appetising. I quite like it, though. I'll drink either. I wouldn't generally buy soy milk filled with sugar, flavouring, colouring etc because I wouldn't usually buy anything filled with that stuff.
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