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  1. TheRuss is offline
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    is badder than you

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    Posted On:
    3/22/2009 10:32pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by pokeroo View Post
    Anyway, here is the video series


    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss View Post
    If you link to YouTube one more time, I am liable to lose my temper. Heck, that's not even a video. It's a still image with some audio. Next time, find a transcript, or type one out yourself, because I don't want to waste six minutes listening to drivel that would take me thirty seconds to read.
    Quote Originally Posted by pokeroo View Post
    Anyway, generally I take a viewpoint such as yours, that if the author can't use science or site sources to prove something I just ignore it.
    You should have done that instead of going to YouTube for nutritional information.


    This thread will not stop being an embarrassment until you condense all of this crap into verifiable/falsifiable concerns.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    Downstreet on the flip-flop, timepants.
  2. Torakaka is offline
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    Do you eat breakfast?

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    Posted On:
    3/22/2009 10:37pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't know about how good or bad cow milk is for people, but vanilla soy milk is sooooo good! At first I was totally weirded out by the idea of soy milk and the fact that it was sweet threw me off, but now I'm totally hooked.
    Ranked #9 internationally at 118lbs by WIKBA http://www.womenkickboxing.com/wikba...rch%202009.htm
  3. ArrogantBastard is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/22/2009 10:41pm


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Even if raw milk is better, I wouldn't take an unnecessary risk for infection.

    As far as lactose intolerance is concerned, mammals such as ourselves are supposed to drink milk during infancy. Past that point, we are supposed to stop, however the domestication of various animals allow us to have a stable food source via dairy. The enzyme you are talking about is not specific or unique to cow's milk, but all milk. Typically, we stop producing this enzyme after adolescence, however certain societies have adapted by consuming dairy over time.

    Still, large portions of society have not adapted (e.g. Asia/Africa) and have very high rates of lactose intolerance. Even places that are largely lactose tolerant still have anywhere from 5-20% who are lactose intolerant.

    Point is, humans have not yet "clearly adapted to drink the stuff".

    On the other points, it is important to be skeptical of everything. One of my best philosophy professors made it clear that one should always question everything. However, a quick read on dairy will usually reveal that it is healthy to eat/drink. From this point, I would only take "newer" developments such as the raw milk debate or calcium absorption with a grain of salt; especially when many of these claims tend to come from groups with other interests (e.g. animal rights).
  4. pokeroo is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/22/2009 10:45pm


     Style: mma

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You know what, screw it. I just realized that I was listening to a chiropractor. I only listen to my own chiropractor and only regarding muscle spasms and my back. Given chiropractors have a lot of experience with osteoporosis, and may look into nutrition, they are by no means experts. Screw this whole post. I'm sorry I posted this stuff. I just realized that I have no reason to be skeptical of processed homogenized milk, as I can't find a credible source for the claims that have been scaring me.

    It started with me inquiring into something with an open mind, and I posted here because I thought someone might have a definitive answer like "no, Calcium and needs a 1:3 ratio to magnesium not a 1:1, according to <credible medical/nutritional organization>" or "It doesn't matter how small the fat in milk is atomized because the pores in the membrane between the bloodstream and intestinal wall are smaller than a single free fatty acid molecule, so they can only go into the lymphatic system."

    I am sorry, I think it is just my way of thinking. When experts explain something to me, it still has to make sense to me before I can accept it as fact, and I suppose the mainstream experts are probably right, and probably the info I want is out there in a textbook somewhere but not generally given to the public because common people are not interested in that degree of complexity. Nay-sayers can sometimes get far more technical, even if they are incorrect, because they often need a complex detailed reason for rejecting the status quo. Some of these explanations appear to make sense, and are hard to verify. I guess I was just trying to reassure myself. I find it hard to keep things simple for myself, it is the nature of how I think and how I focus in on certain details. In a way it is the way these outsiders are willing to give a much more detailed explanation that makes me willing to entertain their ideas.

    I am just used to focusing on the argument and not the person making it. I try to be objective, even when evaluating subjective claims and I don't make judgements until I have almost all the information. However I just remembered that the videos I watched last night included a couple real stupid comments, such as the part where the one guy says he tricked vegans into drinking milk when they thought it was something else, and they were addicted to it.

    Screw this. I'm sorry, but thank you guys. I have renewed skepticism.
  5. kanegs is online now

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    Posted On:
    3/22/2009 11:15pm

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     Style: Se-Jong TKD

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KidSpatula View Post
    I don't know about how good or bad cow milk is for people, but vanilla soy milk is sooooo good! At first I was totally weirded out by the idea of soy milk and the fact that it was sweet threw me off, but now I'm totally hooked.
    KS, this may not concern you but here's Mark Rippetoe's opininon on Soy Milk:

    "Soy milk is essentially Coffee-Mate with laced with estrogen, and
    is best left to vegans and other socialist vegetarian types that
    can't bring themselves to eat the completely natural-for-humans
    flesh of our friends the Animals but who have no trouble with
    slaughtering trillions of our other friends the Plants and
    processing -- in gigantic factories run by multinational
    corporations with shareholders that eat meat themselves -- very
    selectively chosen components of their poor little bodies into
    gooey **** that humans have never had an opportunity to adapt to
    digesting. Why, eating such material, with its high levels of
    isoflavones, touted by gynecologists as tantamount to Estrogen
    Replacement Therapy (ERT), will make you grow boobs, and this will
    screw up the clean lines of this fine young man's Under Armor. I
    recommend against it."
    ( Strength Mill Forums - View Single Post - Another Milk Question )
  6. pokeroo is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/22/2009 11:25pm


     Style: mma

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't know about how good or bad cow milk is for people, but vanilla soy milk is sooooo good! At first I was totally weirded out by the idea of soy milk and the fact that it was sweet threw me off, but now I'm totally hooked.
    Since I feel least drawn towards completely abandoning milk, I'd disagree about soy milk. I tried the stuff and was on it for a while when I was a teenager because both me and my mom thought that the extremely high amount of milk I was drinking could be part of the reason for my chronic coughing (I did see a doctor and was told my breathing sounds normal). I drank that stuff for a while as a teenager. Personally I think it tastes like water cut with chalk. If I ever did give up milk I'd go with "Rice Dream" instead. That stuff tastes pretty bad too, but at least it isn't laced with phyto-estrogens. I suppose the counter point is all the hormones/antibiotics in milk. Thank goodness in Canada we've banned BGH. I think I'll switch to organic though anyway.
  7. socratic is offline

    How do elenchus?

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    Posted On:
    3/23/2009 12:32am


     Style: gah, transition again

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KidSpatula View Post
    I don't know about how good or bad cow milk is for people, but vanilla soy milk is sooooo good! At first I was totally weirded out by the idea of soy milk and the fact that it was sweet threw me off, but now I'm totally hooked.
    I used to not like soy that much. I'm kinda trying to keep an eye on my waistline so I started switching to less-fatty alternatives for stuff I like, and jesus, it's crazy the difference between soy and milk in terms of fat. It's still got a respectable amount of protein and whatnot too, you've just got to get past the taste.

    As for the estrogen thing- is there actually any science behind that? I know Rippetoe said it and he's been training weightlifters for years, but are you kidding me? Soy gives you boobs? Really, Rippetoe? If soy's so bad for you, why the hell does so much of Asia consume it?

    Edit: Just wanted to reiterate that point that not everyone can drink milk. I spent the vast majority of my childhood in perpetual agony whenever I even thought about milk. Having your bowels trying to kill you because they can't digest lactose isn't cool, and as I understand it a huge percentage of humanity can't digest milk after childhood.
    Lord Krishna said: I am terrible time the destroyer of all beings in all worlds, engaged to destroy all beings in this world; Of those heroic soldiers presently situated in the opposing army, even without you none will be spared.
    Bhagavad Gita 11:32
  8. TheRuss is offline
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    is badder than you

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    Posted On:
    3/23/2009 12:56am

    Join us... or die
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by socratic View Post
    I used to not like soy that much. I'm kinda trying to keep an eye on my waistline so I started switching to less-fatty alternatives for stuff I like, and jesus, it's crazy the difference between soy and milk in terms of fat. It's still got a respectable amount of protein and whatnot too, you've just got to get past the taste.
    Skim milk doesn't have any fat in it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    Downstreet on the flip-flop, timepants.
  9. pokeroo is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/23/2009 1:09am


     Style: mma

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by socratic View Post
    I used to not like soy that much. I'm kinda trying to keep an eye on my waistline so I started switching to less-fatty alternatives for stuff I like, and jesus, it's crazy the difference between soy and milk in terms of fat. It's still got a respectable amount of protein and whatnot too, you've just got to get past the taste.

    As for the estrogen thing- is there actually any science behind that? I know Rippetoe said it and he's been training weightlifters for years, but are you kidding me? Soy gives you boobs? Really, Rippetoe? If soy's so bad for you, why the hell does so much of Asia consume it?

    Edit: Just wanted to reiterate that point that not everyone can drink milk. I spent the vast majority of my childhood in perpetual agony whenever I even thought about milk. Having your bowels trying to kill you because they can't digest lactose isn't cool, and as I understand it a huge percentage of humanity can't digest milk after childhood.
    According to some other raw milk videos I have been watching, some of the bacteria in it produce lactase. I think my body produces it too, however there is an anecdote of a severly lactose intolerant man who innoculated himself with raw milk and was then able to drink pasturized milk. He then killed off his flora using antibiotics and was no longer able to tolerate pasteurized milk, then reinoculated himself and gained back his tolerance. There are alternatives though if you can't drink it. You can swallow an enzyme in pill form beforehand, you can drink milk with lactase added, or you can drink goat's milk.

    Regarding the estrogen thing... Soy has been shown to contain phytoestrogens. Doesn't mean you will necessarily grow tits, unless you drink a lot (just like beer), it will increase your chances of certain kinds of cancers though. I don't think anyone, male or female should be drinking soy.
  10. socratic is offline

    How do elenchus?

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    Posted On:
    3/23/2009 2:46am


     Style: gah, transition again

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss View Post
    Skim milk doesn't have any fat in it?
    Australian skim has less than real milk but more that soy. Crazy stuff.
    Lord Krishna said: I am terrible time the destroyer of all beings in all worlds, engaged to destroy all beings in this world; Of those heroic soldiers presently situated in the opposing army, even without you none will be spared.
    Bhagavad Gita 11:32
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