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  1. lklawson is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/12/2009 9:37pm


     Style: Bowie

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    American Combat Judo by Bernard J. Cosneck

    I have republished Cosneck's "American Combat Judo." This is the 1944
    (WWII) version, not the 1959 version which Paladin (an excellent company
    whom wish much success) republished.

    Many thanks to Ken Pfrenger for providing a copy of the '44 edition for me when the '44 edition which I bought turned out to be a '59 edition. :P

    As usual, the download pdf is free.

    http://www.lulu.com/content/paperbac...t_judo/6411686

    Blurb:
    As a student at the University of Illinois, "Barney" Cosneck won two
    Big Ten wrestling championships. Later he served as Judo instructor in
    the armed forces, where he co-authored "How to Fight Tough" with Jack
    Dempsey. In "American Combat Judo" he has adapted the best of Japanese
    ju jitsu, French foot fighting, Chinese boxing and American wrestling
    to produce simple but effective techniques for defense and
    counterattack.

    Authored in 1944 and illustrated with 188 photo sequences, this book,
    considered one of the cornerstones of American WWII era "Combatives" is
    a unique window into self defense theory and the early evolution of
    combined martial systems.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
  2. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    3/12/2009 10:51pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Cool! I'm really happy about this. Thaks Kirk.
  3. odysseus_dallas is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/13/2009 12:58am


     Style: ARMA Scholar, Longsword

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Good job, mate! Thanks for the upload. I'll definitely take a look.

    But does this fall under the purview of WMA or not? It does have Western influences, obviously, but it's not wholly western...
  4. Hesperus is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/13/2009 3:13pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kano-Gracie

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ...Odysseus, can you read?

    It pretty clearly says American. Beyond that, it's a series of techniques compiled and, if formally taught at all, taught in America.
  5. odysseus_dallas is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/13/2009 5:39pm


     Style: ARMA Scholar, Longsword

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hesperus View Post
    ...Odysseus, can you read?
    Since I was 5.

    It pretty clearly says American. Beyond that, it's a series of techniques compiled and, if formally taught at all, taught in America.
    So what?

    It's clearly influenced by Asian MA. I classify Western martial arts as those who are actually Western instead of just taught by Westerners.

    Heck, we've gone through this with Sambo already... and that's HALF Western, not 1/4. (American Wrestling? Never heard of that. Do you mean Native American? Because there definitely isn't any kind of wrestling solely created by colonists in the New World- which colonists aren't American to begin with).
  6. lklawson is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/13/2009 6:01pm


     Style: Bowie

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    Quote Originally Posted by odysseus_dallas View Post
    But does this fall under the purview of WMA or not? It does have Western influences, obviously, but it's not wholly western...
    WWII Combatives are generally considered WMA. They were developed by Westerners for specific use by Westerners. The fact that they draw upon certain other source arts (mostly if not exclusively Western) is why it's debated. It's also the reason that people debate whether or not Okinawan Karate is Okinawan or Chinese.

    Since it draws on Boxing, Wrestling, and Savate as 3 of the 5 primary sources, I'd say that it's majority WMA sourced anyhow.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    3/13/2009 6:17pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Since I don't want to start a lame thread about something I'm uneducated about, this post got me wondering:
    Quote Originally Posted by odysseus_dallas View Post
    Heck, we've gone through this with Sambo already... and that's HALF Western, not 1/4. (American Wrestling? Never heard of that. Do you mean Native American? Because there definitely isn't any kind of wrestling solely created by colonists in the New World- which colonists aren't American to begin with).
    I've read that there are/were Native American wrestling sports. Do they still exist, or is there historical evidence of them? I've read that the Native Americacan styles were basically made up for old pro wrestling shows to make some tan guy seem more fierce. More importantly, does a topic like this fit in a WMA forum?
  8. lklawson is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/13/2009 6:59pm


     Style: Bowie

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    Quote Originally Posted by CodosDePiedra View Post
    I've read that there are/were Native American wrestling sports. Do they still exist, or is there historical evidence of them? I've read that the Native Americacan styles were basically made up for old pro wrestling shows to make some tan guy seem more fierce. More importantly, does a topic like this fit in a WMA forum?
    Yes, there is evidence of Native Indian wrestling and fighting styles. Whether or not there are any living lineages is greatly debated.

    Personally, I'd opine that Native Indian arts aren't really Western though they could be rolled in.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
  9. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/13/2009 7:17pm

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     Style: Bartitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    IMO, the fact that "American Combat Judo" includes 1940s boxing, wrestling and savate certainly means that notice of Kirk's republication of the book is appropriate for this forum.

    If there was to be discussion about the book/style, then (as with SAMBO, Bartitsu, etc.) discussion of the WMA aspects would also be suitable, with the necessary leeway. For example, if a particular technique was a hybrid of, say, Graeco-Roman wrestling and judo, then it would be foolish to "exclude" that technique from discussion.

    By the same token, this wouldn't be the place to discuss the Asian MA content of Cosneck's system.

    ---------- Post added at 07:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:12 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by CodosDePiedra View Post
    Since I don't want to start a lame thread about something I'm uneducated about, this post got me wondering:

    I've read that there are/were Native American wrestling sports. Do they still exist, or is there historical evidence of them? I've read that the Native Americacan styles were basically made up for old pro wrestling shows to make some tan guy seem more fierce. More importantly, does a topic like this fit in a WMA forum?
    Native American MA are a fascinating topic, but probably not suitable for this forum. Unfortunately, Bullshido still doesn't really have a forum for serious discussion of non-mainstream styles. This WMA forum is partly the result of my advocating for just such a forum, because so many previous threads on this sort of subject had ended up in YMAS by default.

    If you do a forum search you'll find a few decent previous threads on Native American MA and combat sports. Unfortunately, it's one of those areas in which legit. info is really hard to come by.
  10. odysseus_dallas is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/13/2009 8:16pm


     Style: ARMA Scholar, Longsword

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What you're saying does make sense, but that doesn't exclude the fact that it is indeed a hybrid and under discussion.

    Hence the question mark in the first place.
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