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  1. DKJr is offline
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    Fasten your seat belts, and prepare for lift off

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    Posted On:
    2/19/2011 3:05am

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     Style: Combat Cuddling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher View Post
    The thing is I don't think most had the actual knowledge to do what I was asking. They had never taken the time to sit down and think, "What are the most important BJJ techniques and what order should I teach them in".

    Even those that took me on as a self-defense student were disappointing. You think for the first lesson they would try to cover the basic positions, key fundamentals like base and posture, and try to show me something like the upa/trap and roll. Nope.

    What I got instead was a group class style warm up, aka a lot of rolls and shrimping, followed by two hours of subpar instruction in two different types of takedowns.
    Meh that doesn't sound so out of place, you got to start somewhere and you should be warmed up. Shrimping and rolls are basics. First things I teach are names of all the positions and what they look like, second how to shrimp from side control to closed guard. Then controlling the PGA's (posture,grips, angle) of closed guard followed by the Kimura so you've learned a sub day one.

    That's a long time for two takedowns, unless they were some type of complex throw or something.
  2. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/19/2011 10:14am

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     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by David Koresh Jr. View Post
    That's a long time for two takedowns, unless they were some type of complex throw or something.
    I find it takes an hour to teach a throw properly, especially to a beginner. Anyway trespassing in BJJ territory. I'll leave you chaps to it.
  3. Team Python is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/19/2011 12:44pm


     Style: BJJ, Libre, Street Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher View Post
    I agree with out in lagre part, but I also think there is a shortage of truly qualified instructors in BJJ, and to a lesser extent in martial arts in general. Just because you are a skilled fighter, doesn't mean you are a skilled instructor, communicator, or trainer. It takes an entirely different skill set to transfer knowledge to others.

    Seeing as BJJ is relatively new in the American martial arts scene, I've found that overall the instructional techniques and practices are substanard when compare to other martial arts and especially to other combat sports.

    IMO the Gracies are light years ahead of almost anyone else out there in setting up a focused, logical system for teaching funcitonal grappling. The DVD's also contain many technical details that were never shared with me during my group or one-on-one BJJ training. The most common comment I hear from BJJ instructors or other skilled grapplers about the DVDs is that they don't contain anything they didn't already know. I'm sure the guys that I was paying hundreds of dollars to teach me BJJ knew these details too, however it never occured to them share them with me or the other students. I suppose I was supposed to discover these things myself through the trial and error and the magic of mat time.

    Training from the DVDs may not be ideal, however I'm sad to say it has been far superior to any instruction I've received in person.

    I know exactly what you mean about being taught the right way. When I teach I take my time showing every detail of the technique. I tell my students that if you miss one detail the technique is screwed up. I myself am a perfectionist and I need to learn and teach every move right.

    I know what you mean about not learning certain things. I used to ask myself....okay I know how to do a triangle choke and I know how to set it up but what about the transition portion of the movements. How to get to point A to poitn B......these things yo dont learn in class, books or videos.

    Also it took me years to learn to be heavy.....and I had to learn this myself by watching my instructor over and over again or watching other top black belts. Then I had to experience with it through trial and error. Even to this day I sometimes just work on being heavy nothing more.....no submissions just getting top positions and then being heavy. It seems to paid off because my guys say I feel like a ton of bricks when I am in a mount position or cross body position.

    So I now show this to all students especially the beginners....I want them to be heavy from day one and learn to control someone from the top positions.
  4. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/19/2011 1:01pm

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     Style: Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Python View Post
    Also it took me years to learn to be heavy.....and I had to learn this myself by watching my instructor over and over again or watching other top black belts. Then I had to experience with it through trial and error. Even to this day I sometimes just work on being heavy nothing more.....no submissions just getting top positions and then being heavy. It seems to paid off because my guys say I feel like a ton of bricks when I am in a mount position or cross body position.
    If you don't mind me asking, do you have any insights into the skill of making yourself heavy? As this is one of the things that impressed me most about BJJ black belts I've trained with and there doesn't seem to be much on it in Judo circles.
  5. Team Python is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/19/2011 1:09pm


     Style: BJJ, Libre, Street Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by David Koresh Jr. View Post
    This I can agree with.

    You are right I've watched some of them and read the summaries for the rest and if you asked I could show it all to you. You're also right the Gracie's do an excellent job of presenting it in a logical order.

    But speaking from experience, if I have to teach a class and it's a mix of whites to purples. I need to appeal to most of them, I'll show something basic combined with something complicated and interesting so that everyone gets something out of it. Otherwise you're left with one of two options, the upper belts are bored from learning the same damn mount escapes again or the white belt is stuck learning how to take the back from reverse de la riva guard wondering wtf is a La Riva. Both are undesirable. So trying to please everyone becomes an issue. That's why I believe in 6-9month beginner classes, that focus on pure basics from how to hip escape to how to stand in base and some basic SD is introduced. I'm guessing they didn't have beginner's classes where you trained?

    A lot of gyms have the idea, you'll pick it up as you go and learn the pieces (trial by fire) because they don't want to start over teaching how to do an americana to every new guy who walks in, only to have them quit in a week. Personally it's very frustrating to pour time and energy into teaching someone only to have them leave two months later, so I understand the temptation to just let it be a sink or swim thing.
    That is the problem with most classes they have no structure or no beginners class. There are five other BJJ schools in my area. I am the only one that has beginner classes. Before I implemented a beginners class I found out that the retention rate was dropping low. They were either quitting because they lost their job or that they got frustrated with not knowing what to do. I knew I had to start a beginner’s class that dealt with basic techniques geared for street combat. This course which I call "Street Combat Readiness" is basic Jiu-Jitsu techniques that would help deal with the most common types of attacks that you would encounter on the streets. The curriculum starts off learning to defend from a standing position since that is where they will start then it goes to takedowns then to ground techniques and so and so on.

    Not only is my retention rate gone up but my beginners are learning at a faster rate. Another thing that I do is not to allow no sparring in the beginner’s class. I know what you might think but trust me it helps them to learn faster because they spend the whole class just going over the techniques themselves. Once they pass this course which takes about three months they move on to the intermediate classes where they learn advanced techniques and they get to spar as well.
  6. DKJr is offline
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    Fasten your seat belts, and prepare for lift off

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    Posted On:
    2/19/2011 4:19pm

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     Style: Combat Cuddling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No, I agree that's actually how I learned. 3 months of no sparring just drills and positional work. Then joined the real class. I agree that's a better/safer method.


    Btw lol "Street Combat Readiness"? That name just sounds silly. :icon_wink
  7. Team Python is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/19/2011 4:38pm


     Style: BJJ, Libre, Street Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    If you don't mind me asking, do you have any insights into the skill of making yourself heavy? As this is one of the things that impressed me most about BJJ black belts I've trained with and there doesn't seem to be much on it in Judo circles.
    I will try to explain by writing it down but it would be better to explain in person but here I go. I will explain how to be heavy in the mount position.

    First off I tell my students that there are basically two types of mount positions. Upright mount and chest to chest mount. The chest to chest mount is the position you can be really heavy in. First you have to make sure you are sitting on his belt line (pelvis). Your feet must stay directly behind his buttocks and your knees must be spread out as wide as possible (I recommend doing a lot of butterfly stretches to improve this position). You will push his pelvis with yours while at the same time to bring you shoulders far back as possible and keep your chest touching his chest. This will make breathing difficult for your opponent.

    Now you will remain in what I call the hang gliding position with you placing all your weight on your hips. It actually looks like your hang gliding with your arms off the ground and your feet off the ground. Keep pushing with your hips at all times. I hope I explained it so you can understand. If you want I can make a quick video and post here if you would like. Like I said showing it is a lot easier then trying to explain it by writing it down.

    In this video in around the 2:31 minute mark I am in the mount position and you can see how I smash with my hips to give you an idea on what I mean......this video I was lightly sparring with one of my blue belts who is flexible as ****



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_pwjE71WrQ
    Last edited by Team Python; 2/19/2011 4:45pm at .
  8. Team Python is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/19/2011 4:59pm


     Style: BJJ, Libre, Street Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You should here some of the names I have for some techniques.......lol ......I chose that name because I think any fighting is combat....and we do is on the street. Well readiness is just being ready for when it happens
  9. Jeff C. is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/20/2011 7:19pm


     Style: Ju-Jitsu/BJJ/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    To judoka_uk, another way to make yourself heavy, in this case from kesa gatame:

    While sitting-out next to the person you are holding in osae, keep your hips low and pressed up against the side of his chest and upper abdomen. With the foot that is flat on the ground (knee up), push against the mat so your hip is forcefully pushing into, and slightly down, into him. You can apply CONSIDERABLE pressure this way. There are a few other positions you can do this from; any time you can plant your foot and push into him, do so, but in a way that pushes him on a downward/lateral angle into the mat.

    Does that make sense? Team Python, can you maybe explain it better? I am not so good with words tonight. ;-)

    Jeff Cook
  10. Team Python is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/20/2011 8:22pm


     Style: BJJ, Libre, Street Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff C. View Post
    To judoka_uk, another way to make yourself heavy, in this case from kesa gatame:

    While sitting-out next to the person you are holding in osae, keep your hips low and pressed up against the side of his chest and upper abdomen. With the foot that is flat on the ground (knee up), push against the mat so your hip is forcefully pushing into, and slightly down, into him. You can apply CONSIDERABLE pressure this way. There are a few other positions you can do this from; any time you can plant your foot and push into him, do so, but in a way that pushes him on a downward/lateral angle into the mat.

    Does that make sense? Team Python, can you maybe explain it better? I am not so good with words tonight. ;-)

    Jeff Cook
    No you actually did a good job doing it.....this works for the cross body position and north/south positions as well

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